Author Topic: 30-30 vs 357max  (Read 1336 times)

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Offline 45-70.gov

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30-30 vs 357max
« on: November 14, 2012, 07:40:36 AM »
i have  read every thread i see reguarding 30-30 vs 35 rem
all  of them boil down to 35 slight edge  30-30 flatter shooting and easy ammo available


30-30 vs 357 max  seemed closer.....power wise


i shoot almost  only  cast...
will cast or jacketed  have a bearing  on you pick
cast  should be gas checked   or not??


i have read threads  to pick a perfect cardridge  foe casting.....most picked 30-30
but  i think  357max  might be better


357  also has compati\ability with my pocket gun....is this a factor??
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Offline ncloader88

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Re: 30-30 vs 357max
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2012, 09:11:07 AM »
I prefer to cast my own if I can. As I see it, it is always better to start with a larger diamiter when using cast bullets since you are relying in the meplat to make the kill and you will not be getting much expansion.  If you use a gas check on the maxi, you could probably come close to matching the speed of the 30-30 with a larger diamiter bullet.  I also like the idea of being able to load 200+ grains of lead for deep penetration.  Maxi ammo is hard to find but 357 mag and 38 special are pretty easy to come by.  Ammo availability isn't much of a problem when you are reloading though ;)   Strait-walled cartriges have a reputation of lasting longer than bottle-necks as well. My vote goes to the maxi for sure.
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Offline LaOtto222

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Re: 30-30 vs 357max
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2012, 09:39:27 AM »
+1

I own both, but if I was to shoot cast, it would be the 357 Max.  I agree that you want a large diameter bullet. .358 is much better than a .309. for cast. You will be able to shoot up to a 250 grain cast, if you want to. If you are going to shoot top velocity, you will want a gas check.

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Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: 30-30 vs 357max
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2012, 09:47:05 AM »
if  i was to want to shoot  jackited


i would choose............308
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: 30-30 vs 357max
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2012, 10:09:48 AM »
I would choose 30-30 for the nostalgia factor.  I've had an H&R and an NEF and I usually shot a 190gr cast.  I don't see that weight anymore.
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Offline petemi

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Re: 30-30 vs 357max
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2012, 10:18:28 AM »
I can run a 180 hundred grain .35 cal bullet faster than a 170 factory .30-30.  Hand loading both, I'd be right around 2400 fps. for the .30-30 and about 2300 for the Maxi.   The advantage, of course, is the wider, heavier bullet.  Plus I can make pop gun, very sub-sonic, .38s also.  I'm not rapping the .30-30, I have two, but the Maxis are my "go tos".  The third one is in the works now.  I have two .308s and lots of other rifles that shoot faster or harder than either the Maxi or Da Tirty Tirty.  But, we're not discussing them.

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Offline Catshooter45

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Re: 30-30 vs 357max
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2012, 10:22:04 AM »
I have no experience with the Max, but this dang forum is sure pushing me that way!
 
The 30-30 is a great cast cartridge.  Imagine the Max would be too.
 
About anytime you get over 1400-1500 feet per second a gas check can help matters.  There are of course exceptions, just like any rule.
 
The one big downside to the Max that I see is the price and availability of brass.
 
Now the 35-30, there's a round that interests me a ton.  Brass is cheap and easy, and you get the benifits of the larger bore too.  Decisions, decisions, decisions . . . :)
 
 
Cat

Offline petemi

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Re: 30-30 vs 357max
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2012, 10:42:04 AM »
We all pick up Max brass when they do a run...about once a year.  Price wise it's not too bad.  Also, being a straight wall, it lasts a long time.  I won't live long enough to wear mine out.

Pete
Keep both eyes open and make the first shot good.
The growing Handi/Sportster/Pardner/Topper Family:  .22 WMR, .22-250. 223, Two Superlight 7mm-08s and one .243, .30-30,  .308, 32-20, 18 inch .356/.358 Win., Two 16.5 inch .357 Max., 18 inch 38-55 BC Carbine, 16.5 inch .445 Super Mag., .45LC, 16.5 and 22 inch .45-70s, .50 Huntsman SS, .410, 20 ga., 12 ga., 20 ga. Pardner Pump, Versa-Pack .410 - .22
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Offline ncloader88

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Re: 30-30 vs 357max
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2012, 06:46:34 PM »
if  i was to want to shoot  jackited


i would choose............308
Same here, but I have a 30-06.  I may eventually get around to casting for it with reduced loads, just for educational purposes of course ;)
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Offline Dinny

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Re: 30-30 vs 357max
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2012, 05:01:27 AM »
My vote is for the Maxi, for the same reasons that Pete stated. Also, I have a 240gr cast load for the Maxi that flys around 700fps and is the most accurate load I have ever shot through the rifle.

Thanks, Dinny
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Offline Doublebass73

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Re: 30-30 vs 357max
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2012, 10:57:54 AM »
The Maxi doesn't have the cool nostalgia that the 30-30 does but my pick is still a Maxi over the 30-30 just because of the versatility. My sidearm is a 38 Special. I have my Maxi sighted in 1 inch high at 75 yards with my 180 grain hunting load. I also have a 140 grain 38 Special load that shoots well in my sidearm that happens to also be dead nuts at 25 yards in my Maxi. It's quiet out of the Maxi so I'll be able to take squirrels while I'm out deer hunting without scaring away everything else in the woods.
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Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: 30-30 vs 357max
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2012, 11:15:03 AM »
my 38 load is on  at 50 yds  180WFN
the 357 mag  is on at 100yds......same 180WFN


still  new to the 357max.........it would be real kool  if it happened to be right on at 150yds


30-30 handi  has always been a must have
i don't have one    and have been wanting one
but this thread is making me loose interest in a 30-30


the 357 comes scope ready  with the proper stock too
30-30  is set up for  open sights.....so i guess i will  wait until they make it right

when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline cwlongshot

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Re: 30-30 vs 357max
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2012, 11:18:14 AM »
i have  read every thread i see reguarding 30-30 vs 35 rem
all  of them boil down to 35 slight edge  30-30 flatter shooting and easy ammo available


30-30 vs 357 max  seemed closer.....power wise


i shoot almost  only  cast...
will cast or jacketed  have a bearing  on you pick
cast  should be gas checked   or not??


i have read threads  to pick a perfect cardridge  foe casting.....most picked 30-30
but  i think  357max  might be better


357  also has compati\ability with my pocket gun....is this a factor??

I agree, they are real close. At least on paper ;). In real life the 35 cal carries a big advantage at simular velocitoes. I prefer the Maxi, but truth be told ill never be without at least one 30/30!

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Offline RPRNY

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Re: 30-30 vs 357max
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2012, 02:44:02 PM »
You're on the right track. Two great cartridges. Now, as per a comment above, put 'em together:  the 35-30/30.  :D

My 35-30/30 project is currently on hold as I got side-tracked with 8x57, but I am set on a 35-30/30 which I think will be the king of New England woods' rifles.
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Offline Ranger99

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Re: 30-30 vs 357max
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2012, 03:31:02 PM »
is that like a .357 herrett?
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Offline twoshooter

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Re: 30-30 vs 357max
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2012, 04:12:46 PM »
The Herrett is a shortened case, less capacity than a 35-30/30 would be. The Herrett and the 357 Max should be real close. Max brass might have a longer lifespan in moderate loads (theoretically) and the 30/30 has to be reformed. I can never imagine having trouble finding fired 30/30 brass.

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Offline Ranger99

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Re: 30-30 vs 357max
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2012, 04:25:48 PM »
don't believe i've seen one then. . . .
how's the 35-30/30 made?
i don't remember seeing that in any of
my data books.
sounds really interesting. . . .
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Offline RPRNY

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Re: 30-30 vs 357max
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2012, 05:25:06 PM »
Neck size 30-30 to 35 cal and you are there. It was designed originally as a way to recover shot out 30-30 and 32 WCF barrels. Couldn't be easier.
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Offline Ranger99

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Re: 30-30 vs 357max
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2012, 05:42:58 PM »
what would be the route to get there?
re-bore?  re-chamber? what would one
start with as far as donor barrel?


what advantage as far as re-forming
brass and re-working a barrel vs.
just going with a .35 rem?


still sounds interesting. . .
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Offline ncloader88

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Re: 30-30 vs 357max
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2012, 06:49:44 PM »
Brass availability ad cost is the biggest advantage I see.  You can buy bulk 30-30 once fired brass pretty cheap.  Also the  35-30 would be a rimmed cartridge, which many handi owners are fond of.  I believe that the weak shoulder angle on the 35rem has caused some ftf issues in the past and the rim eliminates the soft primer strikes.  I guess it shouldn't be too hard to do.  start with a 357 barrel and get the right reamer and you would be well on your way.  I have been tempted by the idea of the 35-30. However, I like the idea of being able to shoot multiple types of common ammo in the same barrel, so I would probably stick with 357 max.
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Offline RPRNY

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Re: 30-30 vs 357max
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2012, 02:47:14 AM »
Sorry for the hijack/digression on 35-30/30.

35/30 and .35 Rem are neck in neck in terms of ballistic performance. They can both be heated up in a Handi to roughly .375 Win performance levels. Benefits, as stated above are: cheap brass easily formed, rimmed cartridge, and performance with heavier cast bullets. The longer neck on the 30-30 case allows pretty chunky hard cast bullets to be seated. In lever guns, that usually runs up to 280 gr bullets, but in a Handi, your throat reamer and barrel twist set the limit. A 300 gr hard cast gas checked bullet at 1800 fps seems quite achievable in a Handi.

On the subject of barrel twist, I am stalled somewhat because of the initial investment and reaming brings the cost down, but is the .357 barrel twist rate of 1:18 3/4"  enough to stabilize a 300 gr bullet? Because, if it isn't, there's no sense going this route to shoot 200 gr bullets when both 30-30 and Max will get you there.
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Offline rdlange

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Re: 30-30 vs 357max
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2012, 06:05:28 AM »
OK, for those who have both.  170gr 30-30 vs 180gr 357max, compare recoil please.  Thanks.
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: 30-30 vs 357max
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2012, 09:19:47 AM »
OK, for those who have both.  170gr 30-30 vs 180gr 357max, compare recoil please.  Thanks.

I haven't shot them both side by side is some time. But remember the Maxi generally recoils less than the 30/30. But it's not an appreciable amount. The handis stocks design and weight  do a good job of handling recoil. Even tho the 30wcf is not a power house, I have herd many people complain of the recoil of a Winchester '94. It's a slim stock with quite a bit of drop, not well suited for recoil.

CW
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Offline Shu

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Re: 30-30 vs 357max
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2012, 12:28:12 PM »
Recoil is a function of what comes out the barrel and its speed. So if you have the same weight of bullet and same speed regardless of caliber,  recoil will be the same. Stock design, recoilpad and gun weight mitigate recoil.