Author Topic: A differant time and a differant way of life.  (Read 623 times)

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Offline Sourdough

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A differant time and a differant way of life.
« on: October 25, 2012, 07:01:31 PM »
I really liked the Old West gunfights, and wrote a reply.  Then decided not to hyjack the thread, but start an entirely new one.
I remember my Great Grandfather (Father's side) talking about when he was a young man during the mid 1800s.  And my Grandfather (Mother's side) telling stories about his father's youth, then about his own youth.  His father had been a surgeon during the War.  Stories about the Civil War, and the period after the War.  How his older brother Lon went West (Wyoming) in the 1880s to be a telegrapher.  Stories Lon wrote home about.  Not just shootings, knifings, and hangings, but how the land and the weather killed people.  Also how the wild animals killed people.  One day Lon and another man were crossing the plains.  A storm came up, and Lon crawled into a hole in the fround to hide from lighting.  The other man laughed at him.  The other man stood between the mules that was pulling the wagon to escape the wind.  lightening struck killing both Mules and the man on the spot. 

Lon wrote one letter about how he and several other men were out with their hounds, hunting wolves.  They found a man (Well known and well thought of) that had just been killed, shot in the back.  The local Sheriff had taken the day off and was with them.  The tracks showed where another man had tried to catch the dead man's horse, but the horse ran off.  The man had chased the horse then seeing the group coming in he decided to just run for it.  The Sheriff had Lon and his friend turn the dogs loose and sic them on the running man.  The dogs were doing what they were told.  The dogs caught the man after a short run, and the killer dogs were working him over.  When Lon got there to pull the dogs off he felt the man was not going to survive, and told the Sheriff that.  Sheriff said too bad, threw him across a horse and headed back to town.  The man died on the way.  He was buried in an unmarked grave, when they reached town.  No one ever tried to find out who the man was or where he came from.  My mother would always start going on about how that was wrong, that the man had family, and they should have been notified.

In the 70s while I was stationed in New Mexico I met and got to know a bunch of old Cowboys and Ranchers.  These men were in their 70s, 80s, and even one old guy in his 90s.  The stories they had to tell about their youth, and their families fighting Indians, Rustlers, Wild Cattle, and Animals.  Barr Fiffer told about how his mother killed a man that had just rode up to the ranch house one day and accosted her.  Barr said she was only 11 or 12 years old, and her mother and little brother were down to the creek to wash clothes and bathe.  She was to follow when she had finished some little chore.  After the man tore her dress off she was able to escape and run to the barn.  Her Father kept an old shotgun loaded in the barn, just for emergencies.  She grabbed it and as  the man came through the barn door she shot him in the chest. Kenneth told about how Apaches had came into the valley raiding.  He was a small boy then, but his Mother shoved him and his older sister into a tunnel dug under the floor of their ranch house.  Kenneth's older brother and his mother shot any Indian that came near the house.  Kenneth being curious slipped out of the tunnel where the other end came out under the chicken coop.  He said he watched as one injured Indian tried to get back on his horse.  His Mother opened the door and sicced the bull dogs on the Indian.  Kenneth said he watched the dogs rip that Indian apart.  The Apaches never returned to their ranch, but hit other ranches in the area several times after that.  Barr then told about how the Apaches would hit the folks around Tularosa or La Luz and get the US Army to chase them.  Then as they got to the White Sands they would split.  A small group would break off and head for Dog Canyon, the main group would drop back and take the Army on a wild goose chase across the White Sands.  Then the Apaches would head for Dog Canyon.  There was a trail up Dog Canyon, that started climbing the steep mountain side.  A narrow trail going up the canyon walls.  Part way up it got too narrow to turn around and go back.  When the Indians in the lead reached a certain part of the trail, the smaller group was already on top, and they would roll bolders and rocks down on the Calvery, knocking them off the trail.  Killing as many as possiable.  Barr said the Apaches had killed several partols with no survivors, so they were able to do it again and again.  Finally one man was able to get off his horse before it was knocked off the trail and run back down.  That man was able to make it back to Tularosa and safety.  After that the Army never again chased the Apaches up Dog Canyon.  They dynamited the trail to prevent the Apaches from using it again.  Then there was the stories about the different Ranchers that ran cattle outfits in the Tularosa Basin.   Then the kids they had grown up with, and life back in those days.  Horses they had owned.  Cougers and Bears they had killed.  Talk about a group of old men that had some serious prejudices.  Black Folks were OK in their book, but they hated Mexicans almost as bad as they hated Indians.
 It took a year to get an invitation to go hunting with these old geezers.  They tell me why they wanted me to go hunting with them, but I soon learned.  They needed a young man who could get off and then back on a horse, since they could not.  I sort of got a suspission when we got to Barrs Ranch and they led their horses up to a platform with steps, then after climbing the steps, they slid onto the horses.  I field dressed all the Deer and Antalope shot that day.  Then tied them on the pack horses. The first Deer of the morning was a real shocker.  Here was a huge buck with the splindelist set of antlers I had ever seen. 
 
Burley shot it from the saddle, which I had done myself a few times so I did not think too much of it.  When we got there I jumped down to start working on the animal.  At first I did not think too much of it as burley had not got down.  Then I realized he was not going to.  I rolled that big buck over and started cutting the hide down from the neck to between the legs.  I soon realized there was no testicles on this buck.  I looked a Burley and commited "This old boy is a steer".  Burley laughed and said, "Yea he got caught during round-up".  All the Bucks shot that day were in the same condition.  Big fat Deer, with no Testicles.  At that point Burley told me not to shoot any bucks with big antlers, they were breeding stock.  After we got back to town, and delivered them to Barr's place, Barr told me what had happened.  Every year during round-up, they would jump up fawns.  If it was a Doe they let it go, but if it was a little buck it got the same treatment as the Calves, roped, thrown, and castrated.  Barr said once they were done that way they stayed close to the area, did not chase Does, and got fat.  I learned a lot from them old Cowboys, some of it unrepeatable.
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Offline Ranger99

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Re: A differant time and a differant way of life.
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2012, 07:12:02 PM »
thank you sir
a helluva good read.
i wished i'd paid more attention
to the old folks when they were
alive and could relate things like
that, but i was too young and stupid.
have a lot of unanswered questions
now with no way to ever know of
how to pass it on.
18 MINUTES.  . . . . . .

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: A differant time and a differant way of life.
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2012, 12:42:53 AM »
Fine poast & stories
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Swampman

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Re: A differant time and a differant way of life.
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2012, 01:51:47 AM »
Thanks for the post!
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline JonnyReb

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Re: A differant time and a differant way of life.
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2012, 02:49:40 AM »
 Love the stories. From a little kid on i'd listen to oral histories any chance i'd get and although I've never known anyone personally from before the 1890's I have gotten 2nd hand accounts of the great war from folks whos relatives fought in it. These living histories are to me, absolute treasures. Thanks again for sharing.  J
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: A differant time and a differant way of life.
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2012, 04:31:34 PM »
Oh, I cvan tell so many stories I heard from my Grand Fathers, and my Grand Mothers.  Letters they had from brothers and sisters who moved west. 

Like when my Grandmother's oldest sister Dorathy ran off and married her husband Harris in 1907.  Knowing the family would not permit them to live in peace they decided to leave Tennessee.  They bought a buggy, harnessed two Tennessee Walkers up and headed West.  When they stopped for their first evening they found her younger sister Maude hiding under a tarp in the back of the buggy.  Maude convinced them to let her go along.  When they got to Phoenix, Arizona they ran out of money.  There Harris found work, and that is where they settled.  Maude married a Rancher and moved to Tempe.   In the 50s my Dad and my Grandmother decided to go to phoenix and visit both of them.  Dad took our entire family.  I wanted to stay there but my Mother hated Phoenix.  I really got to know Uncle Harris when I was stationed there with the Air Force.  He told me a lot of stories about when Arizona was a young state.  I best remember the barn out behind his house with all the harness and saddles.  He had gotten rid of all his Horses and Mules by then.  I keep telling my self I should sit down and write them down.  maybe someday I will.   
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline Larry L

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Re: A differant time and a differant way of life.
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2012, 04:45:30 PM »
Gotta love sharing stories and letters from the old folks. Here's one I've posted here before. It's from my Great, Great Grandmother to her mother written in 1865 about the travels they endured with the Confederate Army. She had to be one tough ol' bird just to survive it. Hope it has value to you:
http://falcon.tamucc.edu/wiki/TOGS/JenniferSnyder

Offline powderman

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Re: A differant time and a differant way of life.
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2012, 04:48:48 PM »
ROG. Thanks for sharing Sir. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline Victor3

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Re: A differant time and a differant way of life.
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2012, 11:53:48 PM »
 Great stories, SD.
 
"Talk about a group of old men that had some serious prejudices."
 
 My Mom was the only child of Finnish immigrants who came to the US in the early part of the last Century. If you want to hear prejudice, ask an old Finn who lived through the Winter War what he/she thinks about Russians.  :o
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Offline kennyd

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Re: A differant time and a differant way of life.
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2012, 02:36:17 AM »
At the end of the letter linked to were the admonitions to be family oriented and be strong.  Good advice for all, while we still face petty mean and acrooked people in life.


A portion of family history that was lost when Mom and Dad dies was a shirttail relatives account of smallpox in a small town in I think S. Dakota.  The whole town was trying to take care of the sick as best as acould be; one family had the parents already gone when the 2 little ones also died.  Since there was no family, the men buried them also and sang "Mary had a little lamb" in tribute.  I hope we can find the old history in stuff we haven't gone through yet.
just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they are not watching you

Offline Sourdough

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Re: A differant time and a differant way of life.
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2012, 09:19:26 AM »
My brother Rob, (lionhunter) went last year and visited some of the elderly folks back in Tennessee.  He asked questions about our Grandparents, and found out a lot of information.  Rob is heavy into Genelogy, and has looked up lots of things about both sides of our family.  I spent 20 years in the Air Force, being stationed in California, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Florida, and Alaska.  I also spent a tour in Turkey.  Everywhere I went I met and made friends with elderly folks.  Those old folks love to tell about their youth and life, if someone will just sit and listen. 

Rob told me about when my Grandparents (Larkin and Nannie) got married, how my Great Grandfather (Sampson Flatt) had sworn he would kill Larkin.  He got his pistol and started carrying it everywhere he went.  He had all intentions of shooting my Garndfather.  Larkin had been a Bootlegger, Moonshiner, a no good worthless sinner.  He was also the son of Pony Williams.  Pony was a womanizer, a drunk, and a worthless horse trader.  One day the family was having a gathering, and all the women folks were there.  Gorgie and Lula, one of Nanny's brothers and his wife arranged for Larkin and Nanny to come in after the goings on had gotten underway.  When Larkin and Nanny came up Sampson grabbed his gun, but Lula (Sampson's favorite) stood between Larkin and Sampson.  The women finally talked Sampson into not shooting, and to at least give Larkin a chance.  Larkin straightened up and made a good husband for his daughter.  Sampson told him if he did not he would shoot him, and Larkin believed him.

 

 

 

My Great Grand Father Henderson Pony Williams  A Surgeon for the Confederacy who after the war became a gambler, moonshiner, bootlegger, womanizer, horsetrader, and a Drunk.  Guess they had PTSD back then too.  That old house in the background is where Sampson and martha lived.  It is still standing, with a family living there.  One can stand on the back porch and look down the hill and see the back porch of my Grand Parents house.  Sampson kept an eye on Larkin for the rest of Sampson's life. 

 
I met an old man in Turkey that would have passed for my Grandfather's brother.  Same build and face.  He moved just like my Grandfather, and liked to sit and talk about his youth and his family when they were young.  He talked about War times, and about peace times.  About different people that had come to his area.  Some to try and take over, others just to exploite the area.  It's pretty much the same all over the world.  Good people and bad people.  Times change, and humanity has to change with it.  But is sure is nice to find an area where one can just sit back and let yourself just not think about what is going on it the world around us.  Times are changing and they are changing faster and faster as technology progresses. 
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: A differant time and a differant way of life.
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2012, 03:31:34 PM »
Oh, I cvan tell so many stories I heard from my Grand Fathers, and my Grand Mothers.  Letters they had from brothers and sisters who moved west. 
  I keep telling my self I should sit down and write them down.  maybe someday I will.
I have a book of sorts from a great great uncle. Stories of breaking virgin prairie in Illinois, killing rattle snakes from horse back while going to town. Dental school in Chicago, early flight and trips to the "fish camp" of Naples, Fla. (nearly lost his life in an airplane crash on one of those trips). He lived in a volitile time of our nations history and had the good sense to write down some of his adventures. Family considered him a bit of a rounder in that he bachelored for nearly 60 years, finally marrying his assistant and lived another 20 odd years. She died much later (she was in her early thirties when wed), I knew her as aunt Bertha, really neat old lady, well into her nineties when she passed.
 
Do write down your memories, perhaps a decendant will edit it into some sort of readable text as my Aunt Bertha did for us. 
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Offline powderman

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Re: A differant time and a differant way of life.
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2012, 04:13:35 PM »
Mattie Mack is a black women from here who grew up hard. She told about how the black villages posted lookouts at both ends of town for the klan. When the warning went out they ran to the woods to hide. They always left the doors wide open when the klan came because if they shut them the kland would kick them in and trash the house. One day she and her Mom weren't quick enough and hid under the bed. She remembered watching the boots of them that came in the house.
 
Her Dad was a drunk and wasted all their money on booze. He was violent and would beat his wife and kids mercilessly. One day he was beating her mom because she refused to give him money for whiskey. As he bent down to hit her again Mattie took a big chunk of stove wood and knocked him out. Her mom made her leave til she got him calmed down, he never knew who hit him.
 
Mattie is a fine woman and a good Christian. She has sung for a KY govornor and met ol bill clinton in Indianapolis, he gave her a private meeting, this was after monica. He came out of the meeting red faced and visibly shaken saying, why didn't somebody warn me about her?? 
Our local paper asked Mattie what she told him. She said, that boy needed a good spanking and I done give him one. She had a lot of stories. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline briarpatch

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Re: A differant time and a differant way of life.
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2012, 04:26:20 PM »
My Grandfather, mothers side was born in 1885. He told me of walking 10 miles with a friend to see the tracks a car had made as it came through the area. This was in western NC.

Offline Ex 49'er

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Re: A differant time and a differant way of life.
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2012, 10:08:00 PM »
Oral history from long ago is wonderful. Thank you for the posts, everyone!
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Offline williamlayton

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Re: A differant time and a differant way of life.
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2012, 01:23:12 AM »
Oral History.
My folks came to Galveston, TX in 1837 from NY State. Opened a foundry--built a church survived the Civil war and regained control of the foundry after a pardon from President Johnson.
My grandfather was involved in a family feud when he was young and killed a man--no one ever investigated family feuds.
My great grandmother's first recollection of Coming to Livingston, TX was when they arrived at night and the town had lights on poles with Pineknots on top, burning, for street lights.
Another GGgrandfather fought in Cuba during the Spanish American war.I had his pistol, which was stolen from me during a burglary.
Blessings
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Offline BUGEYE

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Re: A differant time and a differant way of life.
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2012, 01:44:04 AM »
I keep telling my self I should sit down and write them down.  maybe someday I will.
you really should.  a lot of lore is lost because we don't.
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Offline powderman

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Re: A differant time and a differant way of life.
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2012, 11:50:28 AM »
Matties Mom took a cooking job for the local jail. The jailer was a kind man and liked Matties family, this was after poppa was gone. He always had her cook more than was needed and sent it home with her. She had never eaten so well and said til that day she didn't know that there was any kind of food but biskits and molasses, thats what they had lived on.
 
When she was about 10 or 11 Mattie did housework for a prominent white family. The lady like Mattie so much and was so pleased with her work she sewed Mattie a new dress for school. Mattie shared that dress with her sister, it was the only real dress they had. One day the lady accused Mattie of stealing a brooch and slapped her rt in the face very hard, told her never to come back, she cried all the way home. Til that day she had felt very close to that woman, she was heart broken. A few days later the woman came to Matties house and apologized and said that she found the brooch in a housecoat. She asked Mattie to come back to work for her, she refused, and her mother also told the lady NO, my daughter will never work for you again. POWDERMAN.  Grin Grin     
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm