Buffalo Classic Underlug Spring Question

[drjjpdc]

Well I fixed my H&R .38-55 with some searching on the MO forum and the H&R Forum. But I still have a question about the repair. I separated the barrel and the forearm. Then I pushed out a pin on the underlug, which loosened up the cam under the ejector. I pulled out the ejector and 2 springs fell out. One was long and stiff and the other short and more flexible. It turns out the ejector only works with the small spring in first and the larger one behind it.

Does anyone have an explanation why that is? What difference does it make for 2 springs to be in the same space and the mechanism only works with 1 spring ahead of the other? Aren't both of them being compressed either way? Another thing why doesn't the parts guide in the OM show only 1 spring?

[quickdtoo]

Welcome! Because there should only be one spring ahead of the ejector, someone else has apparently added the small spring or assembled it wrong, a new factory spring wouldn't hurt either since the larger spring may be the wrong one, it's available from H&R, Numrich or Brownell's, it's the same as is used on shotguns. See the pic in the FAQs of the ejector parts, the 38-55 won't have the lift buttton tho, it's only used on rimless rounds. Best advice is to perform the ejector tune from the FAQs, add a BB ahead of the spring and polish the ejector.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,26264.msg525466.html#msg525466

[rdlange]

It's an ejector, so what about the small spring closest to the breech?  The ejector latch cam spring?  See ejector parts picture in faqs.  If it was an extractor it would have a flat leaf spring.

And speaking of that picture... one of my handi barrels lacks the little nipple thing that goes in the end of that cam spring.  Where can I get a replacement?

Thanks...

[quickdtoo]

The little nipple thing is the lift button, as I stated it's only used on rimless chamberings, it's not needed on rimmed rounds which includes rimfires and shotguns. If you need one for a rimless round, best make one, Numrich and Brownell's no longer list them, Brian may have one, but it's easy to make from a small nail, dimensions are in the FAQs in the link I posted.

The small spring is the latch spring, you can see it in a shotgun diagram. 

Tim

http://www.hr1871.com/documents/manuals/new/Ultra-Slug-Hunter.pdf

[rdlange]

Thank you.  So the lift button is the thing that makes the rimless ejectors drop down and slip over the 'rimless' rim when it closes.  Thought I was missing it when I reamed my maxi. 

And sorry I missed that part in your post. 

[drjjpdc]

Thanks a lot guys. Sorry I haven't properly thanked everyone sooner but I have had a few picnics the last week or two and time has been in short supply!
John

[drjjpdc]

Time for another thank you and talk about feeling like a dumbass! For now I did not want to change to an extractor, but at least I know how to thanks to quick and Rd! What an idiot!
Of course none of the rifle pictures showed that spring, so I am giving myself an excuse.
Thanks for the shotgun reference.
 
I've always said that most guns have an elegant/simplistic design and if you just look at the parts you can figure most of it out. Of course simplistic does not apply to Mr. Browning and his designs (elegant yes, simple no).
 
One last thing because the guy at the gun store made me feel like an idiot as well. According to my H&R manuals they say do not dry fire even their centerfire guns. At the store the counter clerk said snap caps are only for guns (or rimfires) older than the 1940's because they had leaf springs, after that all the guns had coil springs. Now I know a bit about the leaf/coil thing but I wasn't going to argue with him. What say you H&R experts? Can I dry fire my H&R Buffalo classics (.45, .45-70 & .38-55) or do they need protection?

[quickdtoo]

I don't recommend dry firing, it's hard on the firing pin and transfer bar unless you use a snap cap which can be used in  most any fiream, a spent round will work Ok for a while, or you can also make your own by removing the primer from a resized spent case, or use a new case, and replace it with a mechanical pencil eraser or RTV silicone, something to absorb the firing pin momentum so it doesn't come to a stop at the end of its travel which can break it. Some members are adamant that it doesn't hurt to dry fire their Handis, but others that have done it one too many times have broken transfer bars and firing pins doing so. For such simple and easy prevention, why take chances? 

Tim

[cwlongshot]

Time for another thank you and talk about feeling like a dumbass! For now I did not want to change to an extractor, but at least I know how to thanks to quick and Rd! What an idiot!
Of course none of the rifle pictures showed that spring, so I am giving myself an excuse.
Thanks for the shotgun reference.
 
I've always said that most guns have an elegant/simplistic design and if you just look at the parts you can figure most of it out. Of course simplistic does not apply to Mr. Browning and his designs (elegant yes, simple no).
 
One last thing because the guy at the gun store made me feel like an idiot as well. According to my H&R manuals they say do not dry fire even their centerfire guns. At the store the counter clerk said snap caps are only for guns (or rimfires) older than the 1940's because they had leaf springs, after that all the guns had coil springs. Now I know a bit about the leaf/coil thing but I wasn't going to argue with him. What say you H&R experts? Can I dry fire my H&R Buffalo classics (.45, .45-70 & .38-55) or do they need protection?

I agree with Tim.

But I think you need to talk to different counter help... This guy is incorrect...  There are a number of guns made TODAY with a leaf spring and That by itself isn't enough of a reason to avoid dry firing...

Buy or make a snap cap (Making one is in the FAQ's) and use it. It IS a invaluable tool in good marksman ship.


Ohh yea, no reason to feel like a Idiot, you don't know things unless you see and/or hear the proper way. Now you know better!! Unless your closed minded, the day you die is the day you stop learning.

CW

[drjjpdc]

Yeah that's what bothers me about customer service in general. I can understand if the the person is young or new but this guy wasn't. If I go into a camera store I expect the guy to know at least as much as me or more. And I can tell who has been around and who hasn't. Of course I would never berate someone for lack of knowledge due to lack of experience but in this case...

[gcrank1]

Most of my jobs were OJT and had a good measure of customer service. Everybody has to start somewhere (typical management technique: throw 'em into the lions den and see who wins) and Im sure I was the dumb one for a while. I ALWAYS appreciated it when a customer filled me in on the truth, as I wanted to become that guy who KNEW as much as possible. A good dialog was what I was after (kinda like here.... ), not arrogance and antagonism.
I like the BB trick a lot. I expect the weak spring is just collapsing and becoming the space filler like the BB.