.308 barrel separation?

[piero]

I just read a thread about some bottleneck chambered barrels separating over time from what I would guess is the underlug stretching due to the increased pressures involved.   Lond story short, I want a .308 survivor and plan on putting many thousands of various reloads through it and am not comfortable with a shim or other things like that for fear of messing up my rifle and/or face.  (I am a terrible handyman)  So basically what i'm trying to say is how many rounds can I put through a .308 handi before it starts to separate/needs repair?  It must not be too bad since they are so popular but I don't have much money and can't afford to keep replacing barrels or paying a 'smith to put the pieces back together. 
 
Also, how long will a frame last under the same conditions?

[MSP Ret]

I have never heard of any problems like you heard of on a factory gun using factory ammo. I dare say you will not live long enough to do any damage to a factory H&R .308 shooting factory ammo or any ammo reloaded within specs. Buy one and shoot it in confidence it will outlast you. If you ever did have a problem with it "shooting loose" just contact the factory and send it back to them for a repair of a defective gun. You do your part in feeding it the correct ammo and keeping it clean and it will outlast you....<><....

[piero]

Thanks!  Now that I think about it the guy that had the problem reamed it out to .300 wsm!  uho, hope the CRS isn't sittin' in at 17!

[revbc]

The 300 wsm is a little to much for the handi's construction.  That sounds like a real unsafe situation.  I would not go to the range with him.

[MSP Ret]

I agree with revbc...a .300 WSM is not a safe chambering in a Handi. Stay far away from that guy, both on the range of off, he sounds a LITTLE dangerous....<><....

[piero]

yeah no joke.  luckily i've never seen this guy and don't plan on it!  I think I saw it somewhere around the underlug improvement thread on the FAQ page.  I heard the .270 is pushing it and the .500 s&w could loosen with really heavy loads over time.  though i've seen many people on here with 45/70s and even heard of a couple 45/120s.  i'm still learning about pressure and how the handi handles it.

[broom_jm]

If you get into handloading, it's no trick at all to keep rounds like the 270 Winchester and 500 S&W operating at a safe pressure for an SB2 frame.

[cwlongshot]

Personally I would not worry about this.
As with ANYTHING push the extreams and things happen, sometimes FAST! Load your 308 within SAMMI specs and it will out live generations of shooters.

Best of luck,
 
CW

[piero]

Thanks guys.  Like I said, I don't plan on going extreme like this guy did, just 180grn on down over varget.  and broom_jm, I do currently handload for my .223 and when I get my dies i'll be load ing for my 30-30 as well, so I do have some experience with pressure, enough to know not to ream a handi out to .300wsm! hey, speaking of pressure and wear, do y'all think using .223/.308 sabots and a really hot load would  eat up the throat or will the plastic reduce friction and keep wear to a minimum?

[Dinny]

Thanks!  Now that I think about it the guy that had the problem reamed it out to .300 wsm!  uho, hope the CRS isn't sittin' in at 17!

Did the guy look like this? http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=8418 I think he had a 300 WSM Handi at one time. Didn't shoot it much though.

If so, you need to do more reading. Tim is very thorough and fully explained the results of that test.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,116205.msg1098373860.html#msg1098373860

Thanks, Dinny

[quickdtoo]

Underlug set back where the pivot is hammered back causing a loose barrel can happen on the high pressure chamberings, but it isn't common, barring a defective barrel which the factory has and would replace, shooting handloads that are too hot would be an easy way to cause it eventually also. So could failing to lubricate the pivot which would eventually result in a loose barrel. Typical signs of too hot a load are failure to eject on ejector barrels, not so obvious on extractor barrels, but most often a sticky or hard to press barrel release lever after the shot.

As Dinny stated, my 300WSM barrel was basically a test just to salvage the barrel and see what could be done with it, it was never intended to be used with full pressure loads which obviously didn't work and why handi35 gave the barrel away for the cost of shipping, he sent it to Mac who decided not to mess with it and he sent it to me for the cost of shipping, ~$17  IIRC. I did the underlug improvement on it and tried working up loads, but could only equal 150gr 30-06 velocites without action flex, was hoping for 30-06AI velocities, but it didn't happen, the barrel ended up being a stub for a 6.5x55. 

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,105157.msg1098295097.html#msg1098295097

[thejanitor]

I have used the .308 sabot with .223 bullets in my 30-30 handi and found it very inaccurate, maybe kill a coyote at 50 yds but I think it would need luck on my side. Trouble I had was getting all the powder to burn -always left unburnt powder in my barrel and I even crimped pretty hard to where it was giving an obvious bulge that looked too bold.
I do not remember the powder I used, but never looked back once I got a .223Rem barrel. I don't want to rain on your parade, but for me I did not like them. I have a friend who in his 30-06 shoots about 2 inch groups at 100 yds with the same sabot and bullet I used just a different load. So you may find something you are satisfied with, I just did not.
Not asking for replies to my delema since I will not be trying to fix it- just wanted you to know the things that seem really cool sometimes don't work for all.  Take care,  thejanitor

[gcrank1]

Could be that your 30-30 barrel is bigger on B/G dimensions than 308/30-06 barrels, etc.; you will only know if you try it. I suspect that with that much lighter projectile you werent getting enough back pressure for a good burn either, so it was telling you to go to a faster powder.

[LaOtto222]

Velocity kills throats. The unburnt and partially burnt powder that flows through the throat is what errodes it. Think of a sand blaster. It also causes the heat build up from friction, not the fireball that goes through it. So the higher the velocity of a projectile, the faster the throat wears. Guns that shoot at 3000 fps will last much longer than ones that shoot at 3500 fps and much much longer than ones that shoot at 4000 fps. A gun that shoots at 2500 fps will last a very long time. You never hear of a 22 Hornet or a 30-30 wearing out throats, the rest of the gun wears out before the throat. So shooting sabots will wear out a throat quicker than shooting heavier bullets. If you really want to use the 308 for a varmint gun, shoot 110 grain VMax or similar bullets. It will be more accurate and will give you devastating results.
 
Good Luck and Good Shooting

[piero]

WOW, thanks for all the replies!  This is just the kind of info I was looking for (and hoped to find.)  And yeah, I probably won't use sabots but thought they were kinda cool.  I have a .223 so no loss to me.  I'm no coyote hunter, in fact I don't much care for it, though I know it must be done sometimes.  Heck, i'm more likely to get one as a pet!  No joke.  Anyway,  my .223 does stick sometimes but it's with a starting load of varget and a 55grn dogtown.  What might cause this?  Brass is perfect and i'm very careful in loading.  I do tend to over-lube my rifle and sometimes get a ring of oil around the breech if that helps.  Thanks for all the good info, guys!

[OldSchoolRanger]

WOW, thanks for all the replies!  This is just the kind of info I was looking for (and hoped to find.)  And yeah, I probably won't use sabots but thought they were kinda cool.  I have a .223 so no loss to me.  I'm no coyote hunter, in fact I don't much care for it, though I know it must be done sometimes.  Heck, i'm more likely to get one as a pet!  No joke.  Anyway,  my .223 does stick sometimes but it's with a starting load of varget and a 55grn dogtown.  What might cause this?  Brass is perfect and i'm very careful in loading.  I do tend to over-lube my rifle and sometimes get a ring of oil around the breech if that helps. Thanks for all the good info, guys!

That's most likely the cause.  Clean out the lube in the chamber area.  For some reason Handi's like to be dirty.

[piero]

Thanks!  i'll try that.  At least it isn't as bad as when my first reload went *click*  most butt-clenching moment ever!  Turns out the clerk at Basspro gave me magnum primers and I failed to read the box!  Oh well, looks like i'll have to go back to Basspro and see the $5million in stuffed animals, the giant fishtank, and the thousands of outdoor-related things... life can be so hard sometimes...