Author Topic: Savage Model 42 at 2012 SHOT Show  (Read 3963 times)

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Offline dpastordan

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Savage Model 42 at 2012 SHOT Show
« on: February 01, 2012, 05:32:09 PM »
I saw on a youtube video the Savage offerings for 2012.  They are bringing back the combo gun but calling it the Model 42.  MSRP about $469.  Plastic and metal looking with a receiver sight.  I don't know...looks butt ugly.  Will be offered first in .22lr over .410. 

Offline dougk

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Re: Savage Model 42 at 2012 SHOT Show
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2012, 06:48:43 PM »
Hey Dan

did it look like this?




Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Savage Model 42 at 2012 SHOT Show
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2012, 04:04:10 AM »
  I hope they FINALLY take the time to regulate the bbls, or it won't be any better than their last attempts.  They could make a decent combo gun, if they would just complete the job!
 
  DM

Offline chefjeff

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Re: Savage Model 42 at 2012 SHOT Show
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2012, 04:09:42 AM »
Good point,Dm. Bet they would sell more,too.

Offline dougk

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Re: Savage Model 42 at 2012 SHOT Show
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2012, 01:45:55 AM »
If the barrels could be easily regulated I would consider one.

Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Savage Model 42 at 2012 SHOT Show
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2012, 02:55:29 AM »
If the barrels could be easily regulated I would consider one.

  IF they would copy their own Savage 2400 and put double truggers in it, with some interesting chamberings, i'd buy one too!
 
  DM

Offline dpastordan

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Re: Savage Model 42 at 2012 SHOT Show
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2012, 01:21:10 PM »
DougK...yep...that is the one.  I found out that this is the prototype and the red piece of plastic was a last ditch effort ...cause they did not have the metal extractor done yet.  I'm hoping the model 24 will have some regulation to it.  The Savage philosophy on the combo is a rifle with an accessory shotgun.  I like the Russian Sever version which I owned for a few years - a variation of the IZH 94 - with a more shotgun feel.  It had double triggers - so no messing around for a selector switch.  Savage should take some notes from the Baikal manufactured combos.

Offline dougk

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Re: Savage Model 42 at 2012 SHOT Show
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2012, 02:09:11 PM »
DougK...yep...that is the one.  .... Savage should take some notes from the Baikal manufactured combos.

I hope they would use the Valmet combo as the source for all there features.  Things like windage and elevation adjustments for the  rifle barrel and a scope mount that is easily detached and returns to zero everytime it is put back on..

Offline woodchukhntr

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Re: Savage Model 42 at 2012 SHOT Show
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2012, 01:32:59 PM »
I hope that it shoots better than it looks!  That is one ugly gun.

Offline Nudge6771

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Re: Savage Model 42 at 2012 SHOT Show
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2012, 04:38:31 AM »
I just don't understand Savage.  For a company with such a great history of making quality, unique, and accurate guns...they also seem to have a penchant for flubbing things and misreading the market BADLY.

This gun is ugly, true.  But that isn't really even the worst of it.  It has separated barrels, which as others have pointed out, are very difficult to regulate...UNLESS you've properly bedded them, and even then it's tough.  And you KNOW they aren't properly bedded at THAT price point.

What's worse is, they ALREADY know better, because they've been there before!  Starting with the Stevens .22/410 that ran from 1939-1949, it was a fantastic well made gun.  Great wood, ans fully seemed barrels from breech to muzzle.

Then in 1950 Savage decided to re-brand it as the Savage 24, dropping the Stevens designation, but essentially keeping the gun the same.  The only real issue the guns had was with the side-of-the-receiver barrel selector, which had a knack for breaking.  But they fixed that in 1964 with the introduction of the hammer-top selector, and things remained pretty much the same until 1972.  I consider those 1960's guns to be the best, because they retain the best of two qualities:  fully seemed barrels, and hammer-top barrel selectors.

I own two from that era:  a 1965 J-DL and a 1969 J-DL.  Both are beutiful, both straight shooters, and both in what I believe is the best combination they offered -- .22lr over 20 ga.

But starting in '72 they wanted to cut back on costs, and that's when they started producing them with separated barrels.  At first they were soldered at the end (BAD), and then they were clamped at the end (SUPER BAD!!).  Both were prone to shoot sideways.

This is the Savage 24 that MOST people know, because those are the years they produced the most.  About the only cool thing they did during that time was make a Camper's Companion model that featured a shorter barrel, and was meant to be super compact for throwing in the car, backpack, whatever.

Then in the 90's they came out with the 23F, which was a whole new gun with the same stupid separated barrels, but made of Rynite (cheap synthetic).  They offered some new caliber combos (.308 / 12 ga, for instance), but they were ugly and still didn't shoot straight.  Oh, and they were far heavier than those early guns like mine, that weigh around 6 1/2 lbs.

Now, getting to the crux of my point, these guns have been SOUGHT AFTER for a long time!  Guys go on Gunbroker and pay $600-$900 for them in "good" condition...even MORE if very good.  There is a whole subculture of small game hunters who will tell you it's the single greatest small game gun ever made -- me among them.

So given the opportunity to own a newer model, with updated sights, and maybe some new caliber combinations, BELIEVE me when I say people would gladly pay $1,000 for a quality new Savage combo.  so HOW is it that the geniuses at Savage decided to instead come out with this junky little bargain priced job?  How do I know it's junk??  $400??  Puh-LEEZE.

You get what you pay for.

It's pretty sad, really, because they have an opportunity to re-open a door that really they and they ALONE )including Stevens) kicked open for so many years.  I realize the 24 was always an everyman's gun.  But way back when, they offered QUALITY for the everyman's price.  Now they're just offering the price.

Opportunity lost.

Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Savage Model 42 at 2012 SHOT Show
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2012, 04:56:54 AM »
  There's nothing wrong with separated bbls at all, they just need to be properly regulated!
 
  Valmet uses separated bbls, and here's how they shoot!
 

 
  So, don't blame separated bbls, blame Savage for putting out a halfazzed product!
 
  DM

Offline Nudge6771

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Re: Savage Model 42 at 2012 SHOT Show
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2012, 12:23:03 PM »
It has separated barrels, which as others have pointed out, are very difficult to regulate...UNLESS you've properly bedded them, and even then it's tough.  And you KNOW they aren't properly bedded at THAT price point.

Uh...which part of that was unclear?  YES, if they were properly regulated, which I guarantee at that price point they aren't.  So YES, separated barrels are typically a disadvantage, because they're done so as a cost savings.

The fact that you have a Valmet that shoots straight (congradulations!) says nothing about the thousands of 24's that came out from the 70's onward that grouped 4-6 inches (or worse!) to one side or the other.

Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Savage Model 42 at 2012 SHOT Show
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2012, 03:32:56 AM »
It has separated barrels, which as others have pointed out, are very difficult to regulate...UNLESS you've properly bedded them, and even then it's tough.  And you KNOW they aren't properly bedded at THAT price point.

Uh...which part of that was unclear?  YES, if they were properly regulated, which I guarantee at that price point they aren't.  So YES, separated barrels are typically a disadvantage, because they're done so as a cost savings.

The fact that you have a Valmet that shoots straight (congradulations!) says nothing about the thousands of 24's that came out from the 70's onward that grouped 4-6 inches (or worse!) to one side or the other.

  No need to get snippy...  Why don't you slow down a little bit, as we all get along just fine in here...
 
  I have several Valmets and they all shoot VERY good, all i was pointing out is, "separated bbls." has nothing to do with "regulation".  It's Savages lack of giving-a-chit that makes their guns a POS.
 
  They could have regulated them separated or not separated, but they chose to not regulate them, and there lies the problem.
 
  DM

Offline Nudge6771

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Re: Savage Model 42 at 2012 SHOT Show
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2012, 04:20:47 AM »
  There's nothing wrong with separated bbls at all, they just need to be properly regulated!

Forgive me for taking the above sentence..."exclaimed" at the end...a bit snippy. :o

Starting over.  While I understand your point about better regulation, I have a hard time shaking the belief that separated barrels are not  inherently inferior, even WHEN regulated with care.  Barrel whip is a reality even in calibers as small as .22lr.

So even if the gunmaker has regulated it from the factory, or if they've built in a means to regulate for yourself on an ongoing basis, having two barrels each free along the center while connected at ends, those separated barrels are still going to wiggle each other out of alignment over time.  This has been the experience of MANY 24 owners who had the misfortune of sighting in on Friday and on Saturday discover that after two shots from their shotgun, their rifle barrel is shooting sideways.

Why else do those great old German and Austrian drillings and verlings have fully seemed barrels?  That was a HECK of an expensive and difficult thing to do 100 years ago.  My sense is...not without good reason.

Now, I have never owned one, and have read mostly good things about the Valmet's and Savage 2400's, also about Baikal's.  I also imagine they are all a step up in quality from the later 24's (although certainly NOT over the earlier ones...which are built to last of quality finish).  So if yours shoots a ragged hole at 100 yards, that's great.

My opinion, though, is that I steer clear of combo's with separated barrels, irrespective of what the maker has done to limit whip, because I am suspicious of the long term effects of multiple barrels vibrating in disparate ways. :)

Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Savage Model 42 at 2012 SHOT Show
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2012, 10:31:02 AM »
  All i can tell you is, EVERY one of my Valmets has separated bbls., NONE of then change the POA no matter how long i've owned/shot them.  I've NEVER had to reregulate any of them, not even once, and that includes my Savage 2400 that i bought new waaaaay back when.  (i probably have 25 or 30 bbl sets right now)
 
  On top of that, i've never heard of even one case of it happening on other 412's, and i dealt with Valmets for many years.  Let's ask Doug, if he finds the separated bbls. needing changes as the years go by...  Doug???
 
  AND, Krieghoff DOES make drilling with separated rifle bbl., it's optional and they do sell them to customers who like that design.  Most european drilling ect. don't have it because of how it looks, not how it works.
 
  Bottom line is, i have drillings and combo's, some separated some not, they both work.  It's all about build "quality" not about sep. or non sep. bbls...
 
  DM

Offline Mike A.

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Re: Savage Model 42 at 2012 SHOT Show
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2012, 02:17:43 PM »
Have to agree with Drilling Man about the separated barrels issue (snippy or not).  I have two Valmet 2400s, a .308x12 and a .222x12, and the rifle barrels on both are extremely accurate and stable.  Not sure about the shotgun barrels since I don't shoot slugs much.   On the .222x12, I just made sure it would put a load of shot on target at about 30 yards using the crosshairs.  It will.

On the .308x12 I sighted in the shotgun barrel for a Foster slug for 50 yards to make sure that it would hit a pig at that range.  Then I regulated the .308 barrel which is VERY accurate.

Offline dougk

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Re: Savage Model 42 at 2012 SHOT Show
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2012, 02:59:54 PM »

  On top of that, i've never heard of even one case of it happening on other 412's, and i dealt with Valmets for many years.  Let's ask Doug, if he finds the separated bbls. needing changes as the years go by...  Doug???
 
 
 
  Bottom line is, i have drillings and combo's, some separated some not, they both work.  It's all about build "quality" not about sep. or non sep. bbls...
 
  DM



After regulating the Valmet 412's I have never had to adjust the barrels.  That is after shooting a lot of Brenneke Black Magic 3 inch slugs through the shotgun barrel.

I agree with DM that the issue is about quality and would add design.

Offline dougk

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Re: Savage Model 42 at 2012 SHOT Show
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2012, 03:13:38 PM »
Have to agree with Drilling Man about the separated barrels issue (snippy or not).  I have two Valmet 2400s, a .308x12 and a .222x12, and the rifle barrels on both are extremely accurate and stable.  Not sure about the shotgun barrels since I don't shoot slugs much.   On the .222x12, I just made sure it would put a load of shot on target at about 30 yards using the crosshairs.  It will.

On the .308x12 I sighted in the shotgun barrel for a Foster slug for 50 yards to make sure that it would hit a pig at that range.  Then I regulated the .308 barrel which is VERY accurate.

Mike

you just nailed one of the key benefits of having an adjustable barrel.   Have you tried taking the slug out to 75 yards?  I have had good success with slugs out to that range out of the Valmet.  I am thinking about trying the 12 ga O/U with slugs in both barrels for the hogs.  Also, I really like the 3 inch slugs and 3 inch  00 buck.  Just make sure your shotgun barrel is cambered for 3 inch shells.