Author Topic: Handgun and semiauto rifle registration and tax (Read 1202 times)

jcn59 · « **on:** February 24, 2012, 05:35:37 AM »

I believe all registration leads to confiscation, sooner rather than later. Hillary's alignment with international gun control concerns me a great deal. We know how our president feels about an armed populace. So if push came to shove, would you stand up for your constitutional rights?

teamnelson · « **Reply #1 on:** February 24, 2012, 05:44:52 AM »

Sadly, all of my firearms have been registered and entered into the national database to comply with HI state laws, where I was sent under Government orders in service of my country. A "tax" was charged for that privilege. Its a shame they were all washed to sea in the Tsunamis of 2010 and 2011.

BUGEYE · « **Reply #2 on:** February 24, 2012, 06:08:41 AM »

Quote from: TeamNelson on February 24, 2012, 05:44:52 AM

Sadly, all of my firearms have been registered and entered into the national database to comply with HI state laws, where I was sent under Government orders in service of my country. A "tax" was charged for that privilege. Its a shame they were all washed to sea in the Tsunamis of 2010 and 2011.

Ga. needs a hurricane or something.

Curtis · « **Reply #3 on:** February 24, 2012, 02:27:47 PM »

Out of over 23 long guns (shotguns and rifles, five of which are simi-auto) and about a dozen pistols and revolvers I own, only a couple are even on the radar with a NICS background check at purchase. The rest were either bought from individuals face-to-face or inherited. I plan on keeping them under the radar.

Curtis

twoshooter · « **Reply #4 on:** February 24, 2012, 02:58:20 PM »

WELL!! I guess you told them!! No, you really told them.....

Just like taking a poll.....

Curtis · « **Reply #5 on:** February 24, 2012, 03:05:07 PM »

Don't worry, they don't know about the ones I packed in cosmolene and buried in the back yard! (doh!!)

Curtis

teamnelson · « **Reply #6 on:** February 24, 2012, 04:52:02 PM »

Quote from: twoshooter on February 24, 2012, 02:58:20 PM

WELL!! I guess you told them!! No, you really told them..... Just like taking a poll.....

heh, yeah, ironic that those of under oath to support and defend the Constitution, by nature of our duty experience the least liberty. The NRA and GOA don't seem too interested in defending my 2A rights, btw, so I've lost interest in them. You'd think after Heller that Base Commanders would not be able to infringe 2A rights on federal land ... but evidently a separate suit would have to be filed for each and every military base on US Soil. For me to even have a firearm in my home is an exception to policy, and it cannot be loaded, or available. It must be under lock and key, inspectable at any time by federal law enforcement. Everytime I leave the base to go to the range, which is on another base, I run the risk of being pulled over, inspected and detained for several hours while they research the records to determine if I am lawfully permitted to have a firearm on base. You wouldn't believe what I had to go through just to be able to store my weapons in my home. People wonder how the shooting at Ft. Hood could've happened with all those soldiers around - none of them were/are permitted to have firearms. Dozens of our nations best infantry men were standing flat footed while someone went and got a security guard to shoot the terrorist.
So yeah, I told them ... otherwise I'd be courts martialled, and lose all benefits for my family, only be able to see my kids under the watchful eye of Child Protective Services. My firearms, many of which are family heirlooms, would be smelted by the base police. So I complied while trying to get some of the so-called gun rights groups to take notice so perhaps we can get it fixed. Be grateful if where you live this UN compliance would be a shock; in my travels with Uncle Sam, I've learned that they're already in effect in much of America.

jcn59 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 24, 2012, 05:45:14 PM »

I don't think it's as simple as voting the bad lawmakers out and replacing them with new puppets. Consider that both parties represent themselves, voting in lockstep with party bosses. So if the people have no real voice in congress, why bother to vote? I think that is a valid question, but I do vote and will continue to do so. I'll close by saying the obama was not elected; he was appointed. Try and prove me wrong: you can't. I can name about 2 people in 20 who voted for him, and I don't think you can find any more on your list.

Graybeard · « **Reply #8 on:** February 24, 2012, 06:33:44 PM »

I don't own any guns I just pretend to.

bobg · « **Reply #9 on:** February 24, 2012, 10:07:25 PM »

May be a little OT but i have to ask. Why would a person go on line and say they had guns that didn't fall under the NICS back ground check?

If i had any like that i sure wouldn't be telling anyone.
All of mine were registered when they were purchased.

Curtis · « **Reply #10 on:** February 25, 2012, 04:31:10 AM »

Quote

May be a little OT but i have to ask. Why would a person go on line and
say.........

I don't think it's OT. I think it is a very important point to discuss and part of the reason I posted that (that is the answer to your question, but I will go on). I live in Texas. Texas does not have any sort of gun registration. Some states and municipalities do. As far as I know, no city in Texas requires handgun or any other firearms registration. NICS is not registration. It is merely a method to try to ensure that guns and explosives do not fall into the hands of people the FBI has determined should not have them, whilst avoiding delay to the purchaser (that is why the FBI database was set up and is maintained). Incidently, the Brady bill spells out explicitly that NICS cannot be used by the FBI to establish a "national firearms registry" and that the records must be destroyed after allowing for a reasonable auditing period to provide for oversight and accountability. This length of this time period is not spelled out in the bill but was agreed apon by the FBI to be no longer than six months. Then the FBI must destroy all information in the record except for the NICS record number and my name. That would include loss of the firearm information including type and serial number of the firearm that was provided on the form 4473 at purchase (if applicable). I have had numerous friends and acquaintences during varous gun conversations exclaim "You mean that pistol is not registered?". They've lived here all their life and don't know that we do not have gun registration in Texas. Hmmmm.

Quote

All of mine were registered when they were purchased.

Where do you live if I might ask? Does your state have handgun/assault rifle registration or are you (like many) confusing NICS paperwork with registration?

I liked Team Nelson's post. It did a better job than I ever could of shining a light where I think it needs to be shined (to shine some light was the other reason I posted what I did, although in a round about way). Some people fool themselves into thinking they are still free and that their liberties are not being trampled and everything is ok. TN is not fooled, he knows his liberties are disappearing. He made the decisions he had to make and I respect that. Would I be able to stick to my guns (so to speak) if the day came that I was deemed a lawbreaker and the ATF came to take them? Many (maybe including me) would do what TN described and would comply in order to preserve their livelyhood and way of life (and especially that of their family). I only have me to consider (divorced and kids grown), so it might be easier for me to rebel and take a chance. Regardless of what anyone put on the poll, I would respect their decision to go back on that if you felt you had to. Very few of us really know what we will do when push comes to shove.

So, to recap. Why shouldn't I disclose that I have firearms that never saw a NICS check? NICS is not about firearms, it is about the purchaser. Besides, even the serial number entries of the firearms on the Form 4473 that I DID buy under NICS are long destroyed by now, and since there is no requirement for me to keep records as far as "they" know I sold or destroyed all of my firearms long ago because they are DANGEROUS to have around.
Regards,
Curtis

Curtis · « **Reply #11 on:** February 25, 2012, 04:31:47 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard on February 24, 2012, 06:33:44 PM

I don't own any guns I just pretend to.

Good answer!!!

Curtis

Curtis · « **Reply #12 on:** February 25, 2012, 04:38:44 AM »

Quote

Be grateful if where you live this UN compliance would be a shock; in my travels
with Uncle Sam, I've learned that they're already in effect in much of America.

TN I think that your one statement speaks volumes. Too many people are blissfully ignorant that the USA has a cancer that will spread to the healthy parts if they do not pay attention and take action now. Then, like you say they will be shocked when they discover that it is too late and the cancer is terminal. I'm not just talking about gun rights either.

Curtis

jcn59 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 25, 2012, 05:41:49 AM »

We have NICS in Wisconsin. A couple years ago a deputy called me and asked about a handgun I bought from a local gun dealer ten years ago. He asked if it had been stolen because it turned up at someone's house a few miles from town. I told him that I traded it off a couple years after I bought it. NICS is registration. How do you think the deputy found out where I bought that specific handgun ten years earlier?

Remember Charleton Heston when he raised the flintlock (?) and shouted "From my cold dead hands"? It is blatently clear to me, and hopefully you, too, that if we present a strong united front to congress and the administration that we will fight, literally, any attempt to restrict our right to possess and bear arms, they will be less likely to create those laws and restrictions.

I'm not afraid to say that those of you who say that you will "hide them" are no threat whatsoever to the government, and that the reality is that your attitude actually encourages government to infringe on our rights. If you do not resist, then you are compliant. There is no middle ground. Read your history.

Curtis · « **Reply #14 on:** February 25, 2012, 06:45:39 AM »

Yes, you have NICS in Wisconsin. That is because NICS is federal. NICS is NOT registration. However it does not surprise me that your local law enforcement somehow has access to private information that they should not have and should not even exist. The FBI, State, County and even City LE somehow thinks they are exempt from the very laws they are sworn to uphold. Oh wait, maybe they are following the example of our own government!

Curtis

jcn59 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 25, 2012, 07:22:49 AM »

Right, Curtis, technically NICS is not registration. I misspoke.

It would be more accurate to say that NICS is DEFACTO registration since the record can, in practice, be accessed to find the person who bought the gun.

Graybeard · « **Reply #16 on:** February 25, 2012, 11:53:57 AM »

NICS is not and cannot be registration for the simple fact that the info on what you bought is not shared with NICS personnel during the phone call for clearance. Have you never listened to the phone call on the dealer's end?

They must tell the store ID #, info about the buyer that is listed on the fed form (which kinda sorta is a delayed form of registration). The ONLY info shared on what you are buying is LONG GUN or HANDGUN nothing more.

How the cops traced the gun back to you is simple. The manufacturer was required to record where they shipped it as was the wholesaler so that got them to the dealer who originally sold it to you. He was then required to search his records to see who he sold it to and thus the cops got your contact info from that dealer and called you.

At each step along the line in the sale of a new firearm from manufacturer to retail dealer they must maintain records on all firearms and the disposition of them. Is that registration? No not exactly and not yet but it does provide the basis for it.

When a dealer goes out of business for whatever reason they are required to box up all their records and turn them over to BATFE. These days when those records arrive at BATFE they are entered into a computer database and that database is registration pure and simple.

So if you have bought a gun from a gun dealer since GCA68 was passed your info on that gun is recorded and if it has not yet will one day go to BATFE to be entered into a registration database. Rest assured the vast majority of firearms in this country have been sold by a dealer since GCA68 was passed thus is "in the system" so to speak. NICS does not have any data that can tie a specific firearm to you but because of GCA68 that info is either at the dealer where you bought it or if they are no longer in business is in the BATFE database already.

teamnelson · « **Reply #17 on:** February 25, 2012, 01:04:21 PM »

So literally the only way to avoid the whole things is face to face. What you just described is a whole lot of people each have a little piece of the picture, some more than others, but the whole picture is still out there to be discovered.

jcn59 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 25, 2012, 01:55:30 PM »

Yes, and therefore the defacto registration is the NICS paperwork. Simple as that.

But I don't think the real issue is the registration. The REAL issue is how many would fight to retain their constitutional rights and how many would cower in the basement if the feds came for your guns. Or worse yet, how many gun owners would watch others fight the good fight while they tried to decide which side they were on based on who would "win".

Curtis · « **Reply #19 on:** February 25, 2012, 02:04:23 PM »

Quote

So literally the only way to avoid the whole things is face to face. What you
just described is........

And what you just described is the "gun show loophole" that the antis want to close so badly. If they succeed, then no more "face to face" sales. You would need to involve a FFL to perform a NICS check. A local FFL in my area charges $45 for that transaction.
Curtis

teamnelson · « **Reply #20 on:** February 25, 2012, 04:35:25 PM »

Quote from: jcn59 on February 25, 2012, 01:55:30 PM

The REAL issue is how many would fight to retain their constitutional rights and how many would cower in the basement if the feds came for your guns. Or worse yet, how many gun owners would watch others fight the good fight while they tried to decide which side they were on based on who would "win".

I have the utmost respect for your post, and feel it deeply in my heart ... but may I share my actual concern? Most will do nothing when they knock on their neighbors door ... their commitment is only to themselves. I feel as if that's what the pro-gun lobby has done to me, they've as much as told me its every man for himself.

jcn59 · « **Reply #21 on:** February 25, 2012, 05:31:25 PM »

That's just about what the poll is telling us too.

I know it's easy for me to talk smart: kids are long since grown, I'm mostly retired, and I'm old enough to be sick and tired of being pushed around by a government that only cares about me at tax time while our president's cabinet is full of tax evaders and criminals. AND I'll do the right thing when the time comes, and I won't be alone.

bobg · « **Reply #22 on:** February 26, 2012, 12:30:46 AM »

I live in the lousy State of NY. YES hand guns have to be registered. Maybe i was wrong about the NICS check. $:-\$ Thought i read some where that the NICS junk was not being destroyed like it was suppose to be.

BUGEYE · « **Reply #23 on:** February 26, 2012, 02:53:30 AM »

OT...... every military man or woman who has been trained, should be carrying a loaded pistol 24/7/365.

jcn59 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 26, 2012, 04:47:31 AM »

The people who run the bases aren't the sharpest tools in the box. The only people who can carry are terrorists, and they know it.

jhm · « **Reply #25 on:** February 26, 2012, 06:14:53 AM »

GB is correct, only the registered dealer you bought it from has YOUR information, the thing abt buying a un-registered gun is if you have a CCW and are caught carrying a stolen gun or a gun used in a crime B-4 you got it and you cant show where or who you got it from will cause you some problems and you might loose your CCW as ours state any LEGALO handgun. HTH. Jim

jimster · « **Reply #26 on:** February 27, 2012, 01:30:27 PM »

Refuse to comply, and keep it to myself. Used long guns can be bought private without any records here, no problem with any of those, handguns are a problem, trackable, and so are any new long guns bought from a dealer. The reason I would keep quiet and not attract too much attention would be because obviously a registration law had already been passed and no sense in drawing attention to myself. The time to make lots of noise would be before this law got passed.

jcn59 · « **Reply #27 on:** February 27, 2012, 01:55:52 PM »

And if squacking about the bill before it was law didn't work? What then? Let someone else do the dirty work for you to try to preserve your freedoms? If that is what you mean, maybe you forgot to check a "comply" choice in the poll, huh?

It's not easy to decide if you will stand up for the constitution, is it?

Graybeard · « **Reply #28 on:** February 27, 2012, 06:57:56 PM »

Quote

Yes, and therefore the defacto registration is the NICS paperwork. Simple as that.

NO, NO, NO. You are misunderstanding what NICS is and what it is not. There is NO NICS paperwork. The paperwork is a result of GCA68 and we've had it since then. NICS is a database of folks who are for whatever reason not legally allowed under current oppressive laws to own guns.

Every year Congress has passed a bill saying the data cannot and must not be maintained for more than X days. I think that is more like three to ten days than 30 days. Even if it was kept and put into a database it still wouldn't be what ties you to a gun bought from a dealer. That is GCA68 and every gun bought at any dealer since then is in the system and yes I fully believe that once a dealer goes out of business it is defacto registration cuz all files go to BATFE. Now they are NOT supposed to be computerizing those files and effectively registering those guns but you can bet the farm they are. They can also go into an FFL's shop and demand those records in part or in whole any time they want to with no advance warning.

But it ain't NICS it's GCA68.

gypsyman · « **Reply #29 on:** February 28, 2012, 02:47:13 AM »

Graybeard is 100% correct. Their not suppose to keep any record of a NICS check. Although I'm against any record keeping, by anybody, a dealer has to. It has worked out that stolen guns have found their way back to original owners, because of this. Double edeged sword unfortunatley. gypsyman

Poll

If the federal government was to require you to register and pay a tax of $20.00 for each handgun and semiautomatic rifle that YOU own, would you:

Author Topic: Handgun and semiauto rifle registration and tax (Read 1202 times)