Could someone please test an idea for me?

[otterbob]

 Could someone please test an idea for me?

 
Others have pointed out the rimmed chamberings in the Handi is the way to go but we do not always have that option available to us.

 
I have thought of a rimmed 30-06 or 35 Whelen in the past, but did not have the time to look into it.

 
Two current threads on the forum got me to thinking.

 
“Rim Job”
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,251822.0.html?PHPSESSID=51ulqp3vru92jbp50vlj22meh2

 
and

 
“35 Whelen FTF”
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,252040.0.html?PHPSESSID=51ulqp3vru92jbp50vlj22meh2

 
In the last thread it was suggested that brass be “rimmed”.
This would require machine work to create the needed brass, difficult for the average shooter.

 
In the first thread, rimmed brass is reformed to create the needed brass, easy enough for any hand loader.

 
Thus the thought I had.
It appears that the 444 Marlin has a good rim and the correct .470 rear case dia, and excessive dia for the neck area of the case. The case is a touch short, but I believe that reforming the case by putting it through the 06 or Whelen dies might just be enough for OAL.

 
So,,, Can anyone run a piece of 444 brass through an 06 or Whelen FL sizing die to see what would happen and let us know ?

 

 
Otter Bob

 

 

 

[cwlongshot]

You know what will happen.. You get a short (wee bit) 30/06 or 35 Whelen with a rim and a thick neck! (Neck reaming will fix that easy enough)
 
The 444 is basically a rimmed '06 case to begin with. But there is also a european rimmed case that will work too... its designation escapes me...
 
CW

[otterbob]

You know what will happen.. You get a short (wee bit) 30/06 or 35 Whelen with a rim and a thick neck! (Neck reaming will fix that easy enough)
 
But there is also a european rimmed case that will work too... its designation escapes me...
 
CW

You may be right on the (wee bit), But I do not have any 444 brass to try in my 06 dies.
I just think that there is enough "extra" brass that it might "just" reach OAL.

You may be thinking about the 7x65R which might work, but I think its tapper would leave it lacking in neck dia.


Otter Bob

[Smokin Joe]

The 7 X 65R should work after the first fireforming

[otterbob]

The 7 X 65R should work after the first fireforming

Yes, that should work fine , I just liked the correct .470 case of the 444 and is availability of the brass, however I have fireformed other cases in the past and am not opposed to fireforming the 7x65r.


Otter Bob

[Smokin Joe]

Actually, 4-D lists it as .471. .470 may be nominal:

[trotterlg]

Do a reality check and measure some -06 brass, mine measures .466 which is normal, you will find that all factory brass is a lot smaller than the SAAMI specs.  So you see, .002 on a drawings is nothing at all.  Larry

[dpe.ahoy]

Using the 444 Marlin case, just look up the 309 and 358 JDJ cartridges and that's what you are talking about.  JD would never let the H&R;s get rechambered for his rounds, but there are other wildcats that are the same basic cartridge.  DP

[cwlongshot]

I was at the bench this AM...
 
Here is a 444 run thru my RCBS 35 Whelen die...
 

 
Here is a pic (L-R) a 444, a 30/06, a 35W/444 and a 35 Whelen.
 

 
As you can see, the 444 brass is "wee bit" short...
 
CW

[woodsrunner]

CW--I've got the same problem myself--woodsrunner

[otterbob]

 Thank you “CW” and “woodsrunner” for trying it, even though we did forsee the results.

 
I think  “trotterig” hit the nail on the head with his calipers.

 
I think fireforming the 7x65r as suggested by “Smokin Joe” is the ticket for creating a rimmed 06 or Whelen in a Handi

 
For myself , most of this years projects are already on the drawing board , so I will have to put this on the back burner for now, However I would like to build a Handi in a rimmed 06 or Whelen.


As it appears at this point, all that would be needed is to rim cut the barrel, fireform the brass , and work up a load.  Although not necessary, converting to ejector would be a nice addition to the project.
 
This should cure many FTF problems and create a very dependable gun.


 

 
Otter Bob

[jeepmann1948]

Has anyone tried necking a 405 Win down to 35 Whelen ? The brass is available and a lot cheaper than the 7X65R. It is a few thousandths smaller at the base but it might work after fire forming. 

[otterbob]

Using the 444 Marlin case, just look up the 309 and 358 JDJ cartridges and that's what you are talking about.

I did take a look at the JDJ'S you listed , They are completely different chamberings, He used the 444 but then moved the shoulder rearward .138 and .148 respectively then changed the shoulder angles thus creating a completely different wildcat.

What I was looking to do was simply "Add" a rim to the same specs of the 06 or Whelen.


Otter Bob

[quickdtoo]

Has anyone tried necking a 405 Win down to 35 Whelen ? The brass is available and a lot cheaper than the 7X65R. It is a few thousandths smaller at the base but it might work after fire forming. 

Here ya go, 405 Win case is .458" at the case head vs .463" for the Rem Whelen, 2.587" long, neck diameter is .383"  with bullet seated. There's a slight difference in shoulder position because my 35 Whelen die is set up for forming 35 Whelen Improved.

Tim

[otterbob]

Here ya go, 405 Win case is .458" at the case head vs .463" for the Rem Whelen, 2.587" long, neck diameter is .383"  with bullet seated. There's a slight difference in shoulder position because my 35 Whelen die is set up for forming 35 Whelen Improved.

Tim

That is interesting and would be a simple make-up

Many thanks to you for making up these cases and posting the pictures.
I really like the size of the rim on that 405.

Guess we should call that a 35-R Whelen imp ?


Otter Bob

[quickdtoo]

Guess we should call that a 35-R Whelen imp ?


Otter Bob

Sure, once it's fireformed any way!! 

Tim

[giddens1972]

That looks like a winner Mr. Quick...I have been thinking about a 35 whelen or some other 35 to add to my collection.  That looks like it might be a good candidate.

[bikerbeans]

The 9.3x74R Norma brass I have, unfired, measures  .466" at the base, rim about .522".  Plenty long for an 06 or 35W.  Not cheap to buy, Hornady is the cheapest at about $1.40 a piece plus freight if you are buying online.
BB

[quickdtoo]

Hornady 405W brass is about $1 each.

Tim