I'm sure you've heard the saying

[S.B.]

That a ".375 H&H will destroy less meat than a .270 Winchester" but, what bullet and what velocity is this bullet traveling at? Anybody here have any experience(real personal experience) with this?
TIA, Steve

[JJ Kelly]

When I was 18yrs old and shot my first deer with a 30-06 (150gr @ 2800fps)
I couldn't believe how the meat poured out like grape jelly. I used 30-06 and
then .308win into my 30's until a friend took me Elk hunting in Colorado and
said I needed a bigger rifle. My first big gun was a .375 H&H followed by 45-70,
.338wm, .450 marlin, .458wm and 9.3x62mm. The answer I think your looking for
is 2400 fps. A .378 weatherby with 300gr bullet at 2900 fps is going to destroy
meat, so it is slower velosity that works. I shot a big hog (350lb) in 2007 with
a .458wm (.405gr rem bullet @ 2200fps) even with that bullet rapidly expanding
it did not cause the meat damage we are talking about. I have settled now on
one hunting rifle---CZ 550fs in 9.3x62mm mostly using 270gr @ 2450fps for
deer, hog and bear.

[S.B.]

JJ Kelly, I asked about the .375 H&H with the rumored lighter bullet and it's velocity? Do you have experience with this on whitetail deer?
Steve

[mcwoodduck]

I think velocity is the main coulpret.
If you take the 270 and shoot 130 grain bullets you end up with a lot of meat jelly if hits are under 100 yards.
The 375H&H the bullets are big and slow
If you take hte 235 grain 375 Win bullets and stick them in the huge case of the 375H&H you can get super velocities but under 100 yards you will risk the jeely meat.
I think is is true about any caliber, speed = jelly.
If you have a 375H&H and want to use it for Deer then reload some 235 grain spoft points to 375 Win speeds.  It should be a pleasure to shoot and will work well for deer, bear and hogs. 
I have a 375 H&H and mostly shoot the 270 gran soft points.  Recoil is stout compared to my 338WM or my 308's and if hog or deer hunting I tend to go with the 308's so far no hogs with the 375.  But I did use the 338 Win on one nad at 250+ yards the hole was neat and clean in and out. 
 

[JJ Kelly]

SB
sorry if I didn't answer the question right. Yes, I have seen a mule deer
apx. 175 lb hit with a 235gr speer bullet at 2800fps and it was very messy.
Same thing with a mule deer hit with a 225 gr hornady in .340 weatherby
on same trip.  Back then the .375 bullets lighter than 235gr didn't exisit.
Can you down load a .375 H&H with lighter bullets? Seems like the case is
a little big for that, however manuals show 2600+fps with the 235 gr bullet
as a lite load but that is still too fast. The answer to your question is under
2400 fps with any bullet or caliber.

[mcwoodduck]

Why not take the 270 grain bullet and just slow it down.
Instead of 24 to 2500 FPS why not go the other way for deer.
Most deer are shot under 100 yards and a .375 caliber hole is usually larger than most 30cal exit holes.
Just poke hole in and a hole out with a 270 at 2100 fps.  Still more energy than a 30-06.

[us920669]

It's velocity, bullet construction and what it hits.  I never shot anything domestic with a 375 but I used one on a Cape Buffalo in Africa with monolithic solids - no damage except the area of the hole.  The best example of the other extreme was also in Africa - a jackal with 300 Mag and Hawk bullet, a pretty soft JSP.  It happened to hit the liver, the ideal consistency for a nice splat.  They said he turned into a big red spot and I think I saw the mist.  The stomach, still hooked up at both ends, was on the ground beside the body.  Ouch!
For deer at close range, maybe 30-30, 6.5 x 55 or 7 x 57, or just about anything loaded down.  For a while I was carrying my 375 with a cast bullet load.  That's basically a 38-55, which killed many a deer.   

[geezer56]

I shot a big doe last year with a 375 H&H, using the Hornady 270 spire points.  Handloads, fairly stout, but not at top velocity.  What a mess!  I am switching over to cast projectiles for this one.  A 300-320 gr. Gas Checked FP at about 1900 fps will be a lot easier on the shoulder and the edible parts of a deer or hog.  I think the 270 Hornady is designed for the 375 JDJ, it's a bit fragile for the big magnum.  Velocity is what makes soup out of flesh, along with bullet construction.

[S.B.]

I believe that when this statement was originally spoken, reloading wasn't as popular as it is today? Hence, they probably used factory loaded ammo? I'm aware with reloading and the variety of components today much more is possible.
Steve

[corbanzo]

Any reloader can download.... but how many of us do? 


Bigger slower bullets have more momentum and maintain energy better, and therefor don't transfer as much into the meat destroying it. 


A .270 can get a bullet going really quick... but since it is a smaller bullet, it's going to slow down a LOT faster when it hits something, and transfer lots of energy into what it his through hydroshock.  That's what causes the damage.


I've seen my .06 jelly stuff that my .458 would go straight through. 


But.... my -06 shoots barnes ballistic tips, and my .458 shoots cast lead.

[RevJim]

 I've shot deer sze animals with 210 Barnes XBT form a .340 Weatherby and it did not make the meat jelly. Very little bloodshot around the bullet hole, small exit. Same with the 270 Failsafe in a .375 H&H and the fast 185 XLC from a .338 winmag. I've shot many critters with a 200 X going over 2900 out of my .35 Whelen Improved, same great results. Same thing with the 180 XBT out of a 300 winmag, very little bloodshot meat. The Nosler 180 Ballistic tip makes a real mess! ha
 Last animal I shot with the .35 AI was a hog and used the 310 Woodleigh at 2400 fps.It was perfection indeed!  I shot a cow elk with a .375 H&H 300 sierra BT going 2600 at 200 yds, made a 5" exit hole. My observation is this; if you want velocity, go with the X type bullts, if you want to use jacketed bullets, better slow them down to that magical 2400 area. Nosler Partitions are somewhere in between. Otherwise, keep them in the ribcage area.

[charles p]

Seems to me that meat distruction is caused by bullet expansion.  If a heavier bullet does not expand inside the deer but passes through, it will do less damage.  If a 375 expanded rapidly like a 270 mght, it should do even more damage.  I think the bullet is responsible for the damage rather than the caliber of the rifle.

[RevJim]

10-4!  I knew a guy who used a 22-250 on small whitetaill. he used the 55gr softnose, and when the hide came off there was always a basketball sized bloodshot area around the entrance. I used a little 6x47mm and the 85gr Barnes xbt going 2900 out of a long barrel. It didn't tear up anything, but was a good killer. I also shot about a 70# pig with the little 50gr XLC out a Rem .221 Firebal rifle, no bloodshot meat at all, 50cal exit hole. However, I have shot several axis deer,etc with the 165 NBT and they actually worked like Partitions.

[S.B.]

RevJim and others, this "old wilves tale" being told long ago  before too much handloadeing was done, by hunters from this continent, so how would you say use X bullets from this era? Or can this be expand  to enclude solids also but, were solids used and readily available to them, on this continent?
Sorry, don't mean to muddy the waters, just trying to understand this.
Steve

[RevJim]

 I was trying to state the observations i had with both X type and softnose, from fast to slow calibers. You are right in that years ago, when that statement was made, bullets weren't as sophisticated as today's and also, the factory listed velocities usually were optimistic. I don't remember ever reading of an early .375 H&H account where the hunter used the 235gr. Most all were about using the 300 grain since it was normally used for big bear. Any deer/elk taken were just incidental to the bear hunt.
  I read of an older Alaskan guide who liked the .375 "Weatherby" mag ( an improved .375 H&H, similar to the Ackley Improved) and he liked the 270gr, I don't remember the make. Of course, he handloaded and I'm sure he never stated it as being a meat saver, ha.
 As stated, all things being equal, a tougher bullet is needed for faster velocity "if" one wants penetration,etc. My friend who used the 22-250 didn't care about bloodshot meat, he just wanted the deer to drop right there. He poached alot, I might add, and he wanted to be in and out of an area. 
 Americans have never been a big user of solid bullets. Africans liked ( and many still do) them to penetrate the thick skin/bones of heavier and dangerous animals. An "X type" bullet has been described as 'an expanding soild" by many. I have a Pastor friend who used his .375 H&H with 300gr TSX on leopard and elephant (head shot) Soilds are normally illegal to use on big game in America, as a rule. The only solids I have seen were for .375 and up. Some ranges won't let you shoot solids on their place. Armor Piercers are certainly not sporting rounds, but they have their place in LEO and the military of course. I had the priviledge to hunt South Africa and Namibia several times, and I always used the Barnes x  or x type (Failsafe) Best of both worlds IMO ( no one is expected or required to have the same opinion as me,ha)