ecological desert

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

In one thread, a poster asked whether he's the only one who sees Wisconsin becoming an ecological desert.
 
While I don't think things are totally bad, I do notice that small game opportunities in this state have diminished drastically.  Something has killed the rabbits.  In my area there is a lot of ag and ag chemical spraying.  I know that rabbits are really sensitive to chemicals and herbicides will kill 'em.
 
There has also moved into this state a population of voracious squirrel hunters that has successfully depleted the squirrels on public land.  These hunters are often not allowed on private land and as a result the difference between squirrels on public vs. private land is tremendous. 
 
Grouse have evaporated wherever the turkeys seem to fluorish.
 
I've experienced bad deer seasons in the past, but could always console myself with good small game hunting.  Now I would like to introduce youngsters to hunting but it seems that all I've got is deer and turkey which are not good "introductory" hunts since both require long periods of stillness and quiet.  Rabbits on the other hand can be driven noisily which is perfect for a 12 year old boy.  Squirrels, well when they're there if you blow an opportunity it seems you only need to sit tight for 20 minutes and they'll come out again.
 
I would like to see the WDNR look into enforcing the bag limits on squirrels and putting forth an effort for other small game opportunities.  It seems that if they are worried about hunter recruitment they should concentrate on improving small game.

[jcn59]

I can spend hours in the woods and never see anything I could eat.  "Cept my boots.  I see some grouse up here, few squirrels, and no rabbits.   I saw a deer tonight along side the road.  First deer I've seen in over a month despite being on the road 3+ evenings a week just after the close of hunting hours.  In the late nineties, I would see as many as 50 deer on the same 10 mile stretch of road.  I'm afraid I tagged too many, seriously.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Tagging too many deer may or may not explain the dearth of deer sightings.  But nobody, NOBODY, is screaming about the DNR's over-liberal bag limits on rabbits, squirrels, or grouse.
 
Is that because the vocal people don't care about small game because they don't hunt it anymore?
 
Or is that because there are so many squirrels and rabbits to hunt small game hunters don't see a problem with the bag limits?
 
Personally speaking, the bag limits for squirrel and rabbits could be reduced (or better yet simply - enforced) and perhaps for grouse south of 64.

[ihookem]

I have wondered for years where the rabbits have gone. Snowshoes even more. I did not see a rabbit bow or gun hunting this year. This makes about 10 seasons in a row. I see a few more gray squirrels the last few years. I did not even get a rabbit on the 3 trail cams that were out since Sept 2.  Grouse is about the same. I have been calling unit 20 in Price co. the ecological desert for a long time. I go through the woods and literally nothing. I can't help but notice there is no regeneration of cedar, hemlock, white pine, red oak, and very little of white oak or spruce trees.  There is almost no wind break in the woods. I believe the deer keep them form sprouting. As soon as they sprout 6" the deer eat them by fall. The only trees I see I mentioned are 2' dia. so are most likely close to 100 years old. The hemlocks are huge and dieing off with nothing to replace them. I am sure there was a time there weren't enough deer and they got 6' high in time. Maybe a huge die off, winter kill or (swallow hard) enough wolves around for the trees to grow. For now I am planting white pine, spruce, hemlock and next spring I will plant cedar. If I don't wrap them in chicken wire the deer will eat them all up to nothing. We need to plant and protect the trees. It needs to be done on public land too . Maybe community service people can, but must be protected 5 years or so. I have land south of Fon Du Lac. I see rabbits on the cam and sometimes just walking the land. I did get a cat on the cam one night carrying off a full grown rabbit. Since I have been killing them. This may help but does not explain  no rabbits a mile off the road where I never saw a Mung hunting.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

So is Unit 20 fairly good deer hunting?  Must be ok if the deer are over browsing.  Unless you've overshot that carrying capacity, excessive damage was done, then it is followed by a period of very low deer population until the food sources can recover.
 
I'm noticing in some State Parks were deer hunting was allowed that browse is starting to come back.  In Brunet Island they have little 10x10 fenced plots scattered throughout the park.  The difference in flora inside the fenced area vs. outside was absolutely staggering!  The deer hunting in that park was pretty good until the deer figured out where the closed boundaries were then it became like any other public land.

[ihookem]

I would say on a good year it's not too bad, where ya can go in the woods and see a few deer every other evening or so. On a bad year ya can go a week and still not see a deer.  There are not many deer there but enough to over browse the little browse there is. There is very little regeneration of anything except canary grass, and a few areas of maple sprouts. Most trees don't grow straight. They get the tops nipped off, then it grows crooked. This can happen for 10 year before the tree gets tall enough so the deer can't nip the tops off. There is low enough deer numbers the last few year that white pines are sprouting here and there but still getting the tops bit off. I have spruce trees that were planted 10 years ago and have grown only 3 ft. and many just eventually die. The food source needs to recover or it is not good enough land to even have good browse. I don't know. There needs to be very low numbers for 6-8 yrs or so. Then the browse can catch up and multiply enough that the little browse there is doesn't get hammered like the park Black Jaque mentioned. Not the gospel truth here. Just an observation.

[jcn59]

All fine and good if you are a forester, but I don't hunt trees, I hunt deer.   What I see in the woods is not a shortage of trees.  It's a shortage of deer, which is a function of over harvesting of antlerless deer and wolf depredation.  I quote Adrian Wydeven "There are more predators now than ever" in the Northwoods.   The problem is that the people who we have entrusted with our license dollars are more interested in reducing deer numbers than increasing the herd size.
 
Every forest I enter has more trees rotting on the forest floor than are actually harvested.

[ihookem]

Lots of trees rotting on the ground. Just don't seem to have the pines, cedar and hemlock. We need this to hold deer in winter. If ya have good regeneration , and there is lots of uneaten browse by spring your area can hold more deer. There was a time when we saw deer. I knew an old timer hunted the same land 50 years ago. He said we saw 10 deer a day or so most days. Got bucks most every year too.