Author Topic: Hinge pin removal Q? (Read 2490 times)

DennyRoark · « **on:** July 20, 2011, 08:54:25 AM »

How is the easiest way to install and remove the hinge pin on an Encore? The manual isn't much help. On mine, I have to literally pound it out and in, even with out a barrell in it. Have already ruined one side of my "multi-tool". Luckily, I haven't missed and hit the frame yet! Pin does slip fit on both barrels. Any helpful hints and insight is greatly appreciated in advance. Starting to not like the Encore so much........

Thanks

DEACONLLB · « **Reply #1 on:** July 20, 2011, 09:06:11 AM »

Have not had that trouble on any of mine. The tool that I use is one I bought from a seller on ebay made out of hard plastic and much like a punch and I use a double head gun smith hammer that has plastic heads on it. you may have a small burr on the pin bore and you might lube the pin with some of the silicone spray that might help.

Deaconllb

one eye joe · « **Reply #2 on:** July 20, 2011, 12:05:05 PM »

You are unlocking the barrel first, correct? I have never had a problem with a pin being that tight. Sounds like the frame holes are slightly undersized. While a pain to work with, there are likely a lot of guys who would be happy to have that problem, as it should be an aid in accurate lock up.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #3 on:** July 20, 2011, 12:22:28 PM »

open the action and push out from left to right . wiggle the bbl a little if needed , If you have a pin that tight you are lucky . If needed a wooden dowel and hammer is safe maybe.

Keith L · « **Reply #4 on:** July 20, 2011, 04:12:26 PM »

Sounds like one of those cure all magic oversized hinge pins to me.

Flynmoose · « **Reply #5 on:** July 20, 2011, 05:37:30 PM »

Quote: Deaconllb you may have a small burr on the pin bore

I did have a barrel that was difficult to drive the pin through, found a small burr, cleaned it up and problem solved. If it can happen on a berrel, it could happen on a T/C frame.
FM

sweetwyominghome · « **Reply #6 on:** July 20, 2011, 06:05:47 PM »

Keith L wrote: "Sounds like one of those cure all magic oversized hinge pins to me. "
---

NO, it does NOT -- and that's from someone with years of experience implementing them when necessary.

Used properly, an oversized pin only requires minimally more force than a standard pin. A few gentle taps from a flyweight wooden mallett is generally all that's ever necessary.

Like others have said, something is amiss, and it's likely a burr or else an improperly-sized frame pin hole.

johnnyb · « **Reply #7 on:** July 20, 2011, 06:08:49 PM »

I use a brass punch or a plastic pin tool for my Ar rifles. Also, on all my Encores I rounded the shoulder on one side of the hinge pin. This makes it easier to line up the holes on the frame and barrels.

Keith L · « **Reply #8 on:** July 20, 2011, 09:23:10 PM »

Quote from: sweetwyominghome on July 20, 2011, 06:05:47 PM

Keith L wrote: "Sounds like one of those cure all magic oversized hinge pins to me. "
---

NO, it does NOT -- and that's from someone with years of experience implementing them when necessary.

Used properly, an oversized pin only requires minimally more force than a standard pin. A few gentle taps from a flyweight wooden mallett is generally all that's ever necessary.

Like others have said, something is amiss, and it's likely a burr or else an improperly-sized frame pin hole.

You have never seen one of those oversized wonders pounded in and sticky? With all the TC experience you have? Amazing.

Grumulkin · « **Reply #9 on:** July 21, 2011, 12:53:17 AM »

Quote from: DennyRoark on July 20, 2011, 08:54:25 AM

How is the easiest way to install and remove the hinge pin on an Encore? The manual isn't much help. On mine, I have to literally pound it out and in, even with out a barrell in it. Have already ruined one side of my "multi-tool". Luckily, I haven't missed and hit the frame yet! Pin does slip fit on both barrels. Any helpful hints and insight is greatly appreciated in advance. Starting to not like the Encore so much........

Thanks

Some ideas:

1. If your pin is stainless steel, well polished and has a 1X on one end of it, try using a factory hinge pin instead.

2. You say the pin fits on both barrels. Did you, by any chance, buy the frame and barrels from different sources and perhaps used? It's possible the holes in the barrels were either made larger by the use of oversized hinge pins or perhaps even reamed out. If the holes were reamed out, the only way to make the frame fit the pin that fits the barrel would be to ream out the holes in the frame; something I never plan to do in one of my Encores. A way to make the holes in the barrels lugs a bit smaller and perhaps fit a smaller pin well would be to have SSK Industries apply their black milspec finish to the barrels/lugs.

DennyRoark · « **Reply #10 on:** July 21, 2011, 04:40:55 AM »

I could quote each reply, but in a nutshel, here's what I have....The rifle was bought new. Standard Encore frame, but it came with a PH 28" .223 barrell. I was new to the Encore game and no bells went off. After thinking about it (and reading alot) I called T/C. They could tell me absolutely nothing! I asked the dealer. He said it could have been a special order that he picked up at a show. Didin't know. As for barrel #2, it is a like new 1 owner Bergra standard taper .243win. The pin is a slightly loose fit in the PH and a slightly sloppy fit in the Bergara. Accuracy problems w/the .243 are being posted in my other post titled "Bergara Barrels". The PH .223 is a tack driver and has already killed 2 crows and a chuck at 200+ yards. It is a factory pin, and the barrel is being unlocked before removal. With my machining background I am speculating that the pin and frame hole are exactly the same size (or maybe a couple of .0001" under) and am thinking that if the pin gets slightly cocked to one side during installation, it stops. No reaming is evident on any of the components. I have found that installing right to left is the only way I can get it started with any consistancy. Perhaps a slight chamfer on one end is in order. I can always buy a new stock pin from T/C. I am going to start using my small brass B/P hammer, hoping that I won't mar anything. Have had it for 3 months now and I know that that first scratch will make me sick to my stomach. Thanks for all the fast replies. Anybody else? Looking for all thoughts on this matter!

Thanks!

Blackhawker · « **Reply #11 on:** July 21, 2011, 04:58:26 AM »

Take the fore arm off and open the action. Hold the firearm upright; pointed forward and away from you with the sights upward. Rest the end of the barrel on the table and with the action open, push your thumb on the pin from one side or the other while slowly adjusting the angle of the open action. As the action is slowly opening and closing, it relieves the friction on the pin and makes it easier to move outward. You will also find that there is one critical spot where the pin becomes very loose and can nearly drop out. Once the pin has been moved a bit outward with my thumb and the "sweet spot" has been found, I take a punch or similar to push the pin out. It should come out with little effort when in the right spot.

By the way, you should always lube your hinge pin and hinge when you change barrels. I use the typical shooter's red type lube. Not oil but the thick red stuff. Lube in general helps.

Take some time and figure out what works for you. Don't POUND on anything unless you like to send your firearms to gunsmiths and manufactures often.

DennyRoark · « **Reply #12 on:** July 21, 2011, 05:09:10 AM »

Quote

Take the fore arm off and open the action. Hold the firearm upright; pointed forward and away from you with the sights upward. Rest the end of the barrel on the table and with the action open, push your thumb on the pin from one side or the other while slowly adjusting the angle of the open action. As the action is slowly opening and closing, it relieves the friction on the pin and makes it easier to move outward. You will also find that there is one critical spot where the pin becomes very loose and can nearly drop out. Once the pin has been moved a bit outward with my thumb and the "sweet spot" has been found, I take a punch or similar to push the pin out. It should come out with little effort when in the right spot.

That ain't working for me, that's exactly how I have been trying to do it

. I was writing my above reply and posted just before you! Pin is zero clearance fit on frame, barrel fit is OK.

Blackhawker · « **Reply #13 on:** July 21, 2011, 07:18:37 AM »

Quote from: DennyRoark on July 21, 2011, 05:09:10 AM

Quote
Take the fore arm off and open the action. Hold the firearm upright; pointed forward and away from you with the sights upward. Rest the end of the barrel on the table and with the action open, push your thumb on the pin from one side or the other while slowly adjusting the angle of the open action. As the action is slowly opening and closing, it relieves the friction on the pin and makes it easier to move outward. You will also find that there is one critical spot where the pin becomes very loose and can nearly drop out. Once the pin has been moved a bit outward with my thumb and the "sweet spot" has been found, I take a punch or similar to push the pin out. It should come out with little effort when in the right spot.

That ain't working for me, that's exactly how I have been trying to do it . I was writing my above reply and posted just before you! Pin is zero clearance fit on frame, barrel fit is OK.

Don't know what's going on with the custom shop these days but I sent some things in to a woman (won't mention her name for her privacy/security) that worked there several times a few years ago and she had them fixed right away and everything has worked well ever since. Thompson has ....or had...

?...a great service department. Like I said though, I don't know what's going on with them these days.

Ladobe · « **Reply #14 on:** July 21, 2011, 10:09:58 AM »

Quote from: Keith L on July 20, 2011, 09:23:10 PM

Quote from: sweetwyominghome on July 20, 2011, 06:05:47 PM
Keith L wrote: "Sounds like one of those cure all magic oversized hinge pins to me. "
---

NO, it does NOT -- and that's from someone with years of experience implementing them when necessary.

Used properly, an oversized pin only requires minimally more force than a standard pin. A few gentle taps from a flyweight wooden mallett is generally all that's ever necessary.

Like others have said, something is amiss, and it's likely a burr or else an improperly-sized frame pin hole.

You have never seen one of those oversized wonders pounded in and sticky? With all the TC experience you have? Amazing.

What I find amazing from the gist of this thread is that with the dozens of frames and hundreds of barrels I've owned since 1968, I've never had a hinge pin issue that was worthy of so much fuss. Guess I was lucky that the frames and barrels I bought used came from folks who didn't abuse them, and it probably didn't hurt either that I bought most of those before the oversized pins came along.

DennyRoark · « **Reply #15 on:** July 21, 2011, 10:31:32 AM »

I've got to re-iterate....this is a new frame, a new-stock pin and the frame to pin fit is really tight. The pin fits the barrels fine. Nothing used, nothing oversized. I have no other Encore experience to draw from so as far as I knew, this was the way it was supposed to fit. I can barely get it out/in without a barrel on it. I think I will mic it perfectly and then call the custom shop and find out what size the pin is supposed to be. Can't remember the fellow's name I dealt with on my Omega problems, but he was a straight shooter (if he even still works there). Brian comes to mind, but my Oldzhiemers gets the best of me lately. The only thing that really bothers me is that someone put that barrel on before it went in the box. If it was noted as tight, it could have been reamed a tenth or two before it left!

Thanks to all...
Denny

Blackhawker · « **Reply #16 on:** July 21, 2011, 11:19:14 AM »

Quote from: DennyRoark on July 21, 2011, 10:31:32 AM

The only thing that really bothers me is that someone put that barrel on before it went in the box. If it was noted as tight, it could have been reamed a tenth or two before it left!

Or a new pin could have been used. I wouldn't ream or have reamed anything. Pins can be fitted and thrown out if screwed up....frames cant.

sweetwyominghome · « **Reply #17 on:** July 21, 2011, 01:43:32 PM »

Keith L wrote: "You have never seen one of those oversized wonders pounded in and sticky? With all the TC experience you have? Amazing."
---

What is "amazing" here is your continued public disdain for aftermarket TC items which you admittedly have limited or no experience with and the way you continue to try and discredit anything I post regarding said products.

When I state something, it's because I can substantiate the claim.

Granted, everyone is entitled to their opinions, and I have plenty of my own as well. But do remember that experience and facts will trump mere opinion any day of the week.

Ladobe · « **Reply #18 on:** July 21, 2011, 02:17:30 PM »

Quote from: Blackhawker on July 21, 2011, 11:19:14 AM

I wouldn't ream or have reamed anything. Pins can be fitted and thrown out if screwed up....frames cant.

Spot on! But I wouldn't ream frames OR remove material from pins. Burrs yes, but not changing hole or pin dimensions. I've always keep the original pin with frames, even the times I had 20-30 frames at the same time. The pins are suppose to be "snug" to the frame when new, and they will wear in all soon enough, especially if you have a lot of barrels but few frames. Even brand new most can be pushed out with just your fingers if you can exert enough force with them... those that can't you will be able to after they've been in and out enough times... and after 30-40 years of constant use they'll just fall out. LOL Nothing wrong with using a non-marring punch, even without a barrel installed to preserve that fit. I didn't like the TC tool when it came along, so stuck with my own punches that I made for the TC's decades ago (still have those for the Contender, gave those for the Encores away when I sold all of them). They stay right in the little kit I put together for the TC's over the years that is always on hand in the shop and on range/hunting trips. I've been at it so long though I have a lot of tools I modified or custom made just for the TC's.

Dezynco · « **Reply #19 on:** July 22, 2011, 01:30:07 PM »

I use oversized hinge pins in all my frames, but they only take a light tap with a brass punch and a wooden mallet to get them in or out.

I think you have a burr or a rough spot in the frame that is causing the hinge pin to grab the frame. I would be sure to use some lube and just hang in there, it will slip in and out eventually. If you have a buddy with an Encore, you might try his hinge pin just to be sure, but I bet it will be sticky also.