Loading medium loads for the FA 454

[HGunner]

After "deciding" to go with a 44 magnum as my first FA 83 I found a great deal on a nice used 454 with 6" barrel and couldn't resist 
I've only shot it with Win SuperX medium loads (250 jhp @1300) and it is a pleasure to shoot and very accurate.  I was also pleased with the handling and found that I can shoot it offhand at least as well as my old Ruger Bisley 44.
I have decided to load for this revolver due to ammo cost as well as limited choices in factory ammo - most of it is hotter than I want to shoot.
I bought some titegroup and 250 xtps to make some easy shooting range ammo (should load to about 1200 fps).  Please share with me your favorite "well balanced " accurate hunting loads.  I'm hoping for something with moderate blast and recoil that will still get the job done from deer to elk.  I was thinking something like a 300 gr cast performance or 300 XTP at 1300 or so.  I see that Hornady loads the 300 gr XTP to 1650 which is too much of a good thing!  The 250 Barnes XPB and the Swift A-Frame in 265 gr also look like good bullets...  What's your experience?

[EdK]

I think HS-6 powder with a 300gr cast bullet is a nice, balanced mid-power load. I load to about 1200-1250fps

[doghawg]

 I use 22 gr. of 2400 with the Rem 7 1/2 primer under 300 grain bullets in both of my Mod 83's. My favorite cast bullet is the 300 gr. RCBS gas check which is very accurate from both guns and clocks just over 1300 fps from a 7 1/2 inch barrel. A 300 gr. XTP will give about 1250 fps with that powder charge. Plenty of power for any whitetail deer around here.

 If you don't cast you could check with Montana Bullet Works for a good selection of well made bullets.

[BigBoreSixgun]

       I also have had good luck with the 300gr/SWC/GC from RCBS. For a practice load I've use 10grs of unique for a about 1050fp. My hunting load is also 22grs/2400. If i feel I need more power than that, I go to a 335gr LFN @ 1300.

                                                                                                         BigBoreSixgun

[HGunner]

I bought the Titegroup at the advice of a Hodgdon rep who said it would probably be more accurate than HS-6 or Universal for light loads.   It seems to work fine but these loads are pretty mild.  He also suggested IMR-4227 for the next step up in power so I bought that too.  I loaded 28g of IMR-4227 under a standard 250 XTP with a wsr primer.  This seems to be a pretty nice load with near 44 mag recoil.  Accuracy was good but not quite as good as the Winchester Super-X ammo.  One of my loading goals is to duplicate that Winchester load as it seems like a really nice whitetail load that is pleasant to shoot and accurate (looks like it uses the 250g XTP and is listed at 1300 fps).  Any suggestions? Anybody use IMR-4227 for hunting loads?  I have easy access to the Hornady XTP line of bullets locally so I will probably start with 250 to 300 grain XTPs.

[BigMuddy]

I have gone to 4227 for most of my 454 loads.

I shoot the exact load you mentioned, 28.0 with a 250 XTP and it is real close to the Winchester factory load. Velocity for me was near duplicated. (1350 fps i 7.5" gun) I use Remington BR #7 primers, Starline brass.

I use the same charge with an RCBS 300gr. GC for heavier loads.

Dan

[HGunner]

Thanks BigMuddy.  I'll keep tweeking this load in the 28g range to see how accurate I can make it.  I appreciate the velocity data.  I don't have a chronograph yet so I'm "guesstimating".  Have you tried any 300 grain XTPs?

[SM]

 I've used Vihtavuori 3N37 when assembling medium velocity ammo using 250 and 300 grain bullets. The loads are very pleasant to shoot and quite accurate. The recipes can be found in Vihtavuori reloading manual.

Here's one link: http://www.nordis.fi/jalleenlataus/vihtavuori-jalleenlatausopas/
 

[BigMuddy]

Thanks BigMuddy.  I'll keep tweeking this load in the 28g range to see how accurate I can make it.  I appreciate the velocity data.  I don't have a chronograph yet so I'm "guesstimating".  Have you tried any 300 grain XTPs?

Yes I have! 300 grain XTP MAGS and 4227 results, all from a 7.5" FA gun:

28.0 gr.        1419 fps      extreme spread  26   (65 degrees)

29.0 gr          1472fps      Extreme spread  35   (70 degrees)

30.0gr           1527fps      Extreme spread 90    (colder day 37 degrees)

All with Starline brass and Remingtong #7 BR primers.

These were all with the 300 XTP "MAG" bullet. I have not tried the 300 grain "non" mag in my 454's.

[HGunner]

Thanks BigMuddy!  That's great information.  Have you done any hunting with the 300 grain XTP mag? I am wondering what the impact velocity would need to be to get the mag bullets to expand.  Based on your data I suspect I could run the standard 300g XTP with about 27 grains of 4227 without a problem.  Don't want to be a pest but if you have the same type of 4227 data with the 250 XTP I would love to see the numbers.  I sure wish Hornady would publish some 454 reduced load data with the standard XTPs....

 

[paul105]

If you want a moderate load using the 250 Horn XTP and H4227 why don't you start with Hodgdon's on line data manual http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp and and use the 45 Colt "Ruger, Freedom Arms & T/C only" load data -- 24.6gr of H4227 is listed as max with the 250 Horn XTP and develops 1,343 fps at 30,300 CUP in a 7.25" Bbl.  You will probably get less velocity in the larger .454 case (although you might be surprised with the tight spec FA83).

In my 6" FA83, the 250 Horn XTP with 24.8 gr of VV N110 develops 1,430 fps and is one of the most accurate loads I've found for this gun.

As doghawg and BigBore mentioned above,  22.0gr of A2400 is a moderate load and works very well with various bullet weights.  I've used it (w/250XTP to 320gr cast) with complete satisfaction.

Paul

[BigMuddy]

Hgunner

You're not being a pest at all.

Sorry but I don't have more data with the 250 XTP. When I shot that one with 28.0 gr. of 4227 it was one of those few times that the first load tried did so well I did not mess with any others.

I one time did an experiment with several different bullets, all loaded with the same powder charge...28.0 4227 and recorded the velocities and accuracy I got with each. I used several different 300 gr. bullets, and all of the jacketed went right at or around 1400 fps. Extreme spreads with each was very close as well, and all were low.

I have not hunted with the 300 XTP Mag. I have read a lot of opinions on the impact velocity needed to get expansion, and don't know what to believe is true. You can search some other forums for opinions on this bullet, and seems it is a love or hate. Some say it acts as a solid, others seem to think it expands. In my very less than expert opinion I would use that bullet for big heavy game, and would use the regular XTP on animals like white tails.I did shoot a deer with a 300 XTP (non mag) but it was from a 45 Colt and was loaded to 1350 fps. Performance was near perfect. Deer was shot at 30 yards behind the shoulder double lung, and while I did not recover the bullet there was strong evidence of expansion and the deer was an easy recovery.

I agree also with the comments on using Alliant 2400. It has been a great powder for me, and I still use lots of it. I just don't use it in my 454's. I have, but found extreme spreads were higher. It is also the only powder that I ever got a load in my FA gun that had sticky extraction. It is good powder, just not working as well for me as 4227. I have also been told that 4227 is easier on forcing cones, and with all the forcing cone problems I have had I look for anyway to avoid them.

I looked at my older 50th Anniversary Sierra manual, and there are some reduced loads with their 240 grain bullet. That manual also has some more reduced loads with their 300 gr bullet too.

When you say you are looking for a load to hunt "from deer to elk" in my opinion finding the right jacketed bullet for both is difficult. If you want one load that is good for both, I would really look to the lead bullets. You mentioned the cast performance bullet, and I think that is a good choice. You will shoot through any deer from any angle, and believe it will do the same on elk. I have had some great results with the Cast Performance 335 gr WLNGC bullet.

Some loads with that bullet and 4227 powder:

25.5 gr.           1247 fps    ES 21
27.0 gr.           1335 fps    ES 53
28.0 gr            1400 fps    ES 9

These were all fired with a 6" barrel gun. My 7.5" does just a shade under 1500 fps with 28.0 grains. I did not really believe that one, so shot the same load on another day, and my average velocity was within 4 fps from the previous.

I am planning a bear hunt this fall and plan to use my 454. The load I have settled on is the 300 grain RCBS semi wadcutter gas check bullet. I am loading it with 28.0 gr. 4227 and depending on barrel length get 1350 to 1450 fps. It is extremely accurate in all of my guns. We shot it in a friend's 454 that is also going on the hunt and his scoped gun is shooting the proverbial "one ragged hole" group at 50 yards. He had a 2" group at 100. I have tried this load in 4 different guns and have not found one yet that it does not shoot well in. Not a top end load by any means, but enough to do the job on about anything I will ever shoot.

For what you are looking for, I think a lead bullet and 27 to 28 gr. of 4227 might be just the ticket.

Good Luck

Dan

[HGunner]

Hey BigMuddy,  Thanks so much for your post -- I really appreciate the detail.  I believe I saw a box of the Cast Performance 335gr WLNGC at a local shop so I'll give them a try.  I haven't seen any 300 grain cast locally.  I know I can order some from Cast Performance.  Where do you get your RCBS 300 grainers?  Have you compaired them to the Cast Performance 300 gr?

[BigMuddy]

Where do you get your RCBS 300 grainers?  Have you compaired them to the Cast Performance 300 gr?

I get them from me! . I cast them myself. I have shot a few, but very few Cast Performance 300 gr. in my 454. I have used the 335 gr. a lot more. My guns shoot both the RCBS and the CP 335 gr. bullets extremely well. I have settled on the RCBS simply because that is the mold I have and it is shooting great.

I have purchased the LBT 335 gr. bullets from Leadhead as well. They also have a 310 gr. LFN with no gas check. That bullet does not shoot bad, but it is very long nosed and if there is ANY bullet creep from recoil it ties up my FA gun. I use that bullet more in 45 Colt cases when I do use them. When I did shoot the 310's in the 454 it was with 22 gr. of 2400. Did not have a chronograph then so not sure how fast it was going. It was accurate and recoil was similar to a 44 mag.

I just looked and Montana Bullet Works has the RCBS 300 gr. GC bullet if you are looking to purchase some of those.

Dan

[HGunner]

I shot 30 of the 250g XTPs over 28 grains of IMR-4227 and they shoot quite well.  The recoil and point of impact is very similar to the Winchester Super-X load.  I had a single pierced primer with a WSR primer - the primers otherwise look fine.  Extraction is easy.  I'm not sure what to make of the pierced primer but I have no other reason to think that this is an unsafe load.  I bought some of the Cast Performance 335g.  I'll load some this week.  I thought I would start with 24-25 grains of 4227.  I'm pretty sure I'll need to order a taller front sight...

[HGunner]

I loaded some more 454 using the Hornady 250 XTP and 28 gr of IMR-4227 but I switched to the CCI BR-4 primer.  This is sweet load.  It feels like a 44 mag in recoil and is very accurate.  I think this will be my whitetail load.  I shot some of the cast 335 gr bullets over 24 grains of the same powder.  They buck a little harder but nothing offensive.  They shoot several inches high at 25 yards even with the rear sight bottomed out.  I have ordered a taller front sight but I think I will also work up to 26 gr and see how they shoot.  Accuracy was good but not great.  Anybody try the Barnes XPB 250 gr or the Swift A-frame in 265 or 300?

[Lloyd Smale]

Im one that usually laughs at guys looking for clean loads but my Fa is so tight that just a little fouling ties it up and most midrange loads are dirty.  I usually use hs6  and use a mag primer to light them and it keeps unburned powder to a minimum and allows me to shoot all day without cleaning.

[suba]

Believe it or not that's a custom 400gr bullet that I cast sitting on top of 16 grains of 4227 that I shoot out of my Colt cylinder. Nice easy medium load, but it packs a big punch. I like 4227. Very accurate for me, and a nice slow pressure curve. So it doesn't burn the cleanest at lower levels, but what's not to like. Never had my FA tie up on me yet....

[HGunner]

I like IMR-4227 as well.  I did notice that it burns a little dirty with lower pressure stuff but I rarely shoot more than 50 rounds of 454 at one sitting.  I always clean my gun after - no problem so far.  I am curious about accuracy with the 400 grain bullet.  I wouldn't think that that bullet would stabilize at lower velocity.

[suba]

You know, I was a little concerned about stability when I ordered the mold from Mountain Mold. It seems my fears never materialized. Maybe it's the way I designed the bullet. I think I got the CG right. It's a long bullet measuring almost an inch.  It's like a wadcutter in that there is engraving the entire length of the bullet except for the three lube grooves. The dia. is .450 at the radius, and tapers to .452 from above the crimp groove to the flat base. That really helps with accuracy imo as the bullet barely starts moving before it finds a snug fit into the forcing cone. The long engraving also helps with stability, which helps with accuracy.  Ideally the BHN should be right for everything to work well together.

I wouldn't consider a 400gr under 16 of 4227 that slow. Plenty of zip.  I could get 22- 24 gr in a 454 case.  Dan up in Alaska who owns the Bull Shop shoots a similar 400gr ( mine's actually closer to 405 with lube ) at 1350 with 25gr H110 if I'm not mistaken. He calls it his Bear protection. I've also tried 3 gr of Trail Boss ( 6-7 BHN on this one ) and it still flies straight and it's accurate. I'm guessing the velocity is <650  yet even then that heavy round packs a mean punch.

I guess you never know what a particular bullet will do until you try.

[BigMuddy]

  Anybody try the Barnes XPB 250 gr or the Swift A-frame in 265 or 300?

HGunner..I have tried the Swift A Frame 300 gr. Guess what load?

28.0 grains of 4227 averaged 1441 in my 7.5" gun. Extreme spread was 29, tested at 65 degrees F. Accuracy was SUPER! I have used this bullet in the past with H110, but that was before I owned a chronograph. Accuracy with this bullet has always been top notch. It is expensive ($1 each) but it has always shot very accurately for me. I never used it on game, as I switched to the Nosler Partition 260 gr. bullet for a premium jacketed a few years ago. (My load with that one is still with H110/WW296)

Dan

[bobthenailer]

I use Tightgroup in the 454 for med velocity loads from  around 1000 to 1200 fps + with 260 ,275 & 300 gr cast bullets 8.0 of TG will give you about 1000 fps /  9.0 @1100 fps and 11.0 gr @ ? fps I did not chron this load .  these were the most accurate loads with my bullets and guns , all will group under a inch at 25 yards

[HGunner]

Hey Bob,

I agree on the Titegroup. I have developed a practice load using Titegroup.  I use 10.5 grains with a 250 xtp.  This is a real nice shooting load with modest blast and recoil.  I don't like he possibility of a double charge, but it seems to shoot much better than lightly loaded 4227.

[bobthenailer]

with the Hornaday 250 gr xtp try surplus WW 820 [ that has a burning rate between 2400 & 296/H110]  26.0 grs @1340 fps or 28.0 @1500 fps which is max velocity for this bullet & pressure !
  both loads are very accurate. from my guns.
  for the Barnes 250 gr XTB i use 28.0 grs of lilgun @1600 fps .   This bullet takes up more powder space than a 300 gr bullet , giving you less usable case capacity. I  havent shot a animal with this bullet yet as i only use it for my 6" FA.   But i have shot 5 deer with the Nosler 260 gr partiton-HG from 100 yards to about 50 yards all one shot & drop with my other FA 454s

[suba]

Bob, you might want to reconsider using lilgun in your FA's. It burns really hot.  4227 is much easier on the forcing cone and barrel.  I threw out my can of lilgun a long time ago.

[bobthenailer]

Thanks for the heads up on lil gun! im aware of its problems in the FA 454  when i slowley shoot up my ammo loaded with lilgun i will go back to useing 296/ H110 and WW surplus 820 for my full loads.

[Racer X]

I use Tightgroup in the 454 for med velocity loads from  around 1000 to 1200 fps + with 260 ,275 & 300 gr cast bullets 8.0 of TG will give you about 1000 fps /  9.0 @1100 fps and 11.0 gr @ ? fps I did not chron this load .  these were the most accurate loads with my bullets and guns , all will group under a inch at 25 yards

Are you shooting plain-base cast bullets? If yes, how much leading are you getting at those velocities with Titegroup?

The reason I ask is my next gun will be either a 44 mag or a .454 Casull. If I get a 454, I would like to load plain-base cast at the 1000 - 1200 FPS level. However, I am concerned about leading with the fast powders like Titegroup, Unique and HS-6. I am wondering if I will have an easier time finding accurate mid-range loads with a 44.

Although I wish I could afford a FA, whichever caliber I get will probably be in a Ruger Super Redhawk.

[Racer X]

I have gone to 4227 for most of my 454 loads.

I shoot the exact load you mentioned, 28.0 with a 250 XTP and it is real close to the Winchester factory load. Velocity for me was near duplicated. (1350 fps i 7.5" gun) I use Remington BR #7 primers, Starline brass.
Dan

Anyone ever asked Winchester what powder they are using in that reduced velocity load with the 250 XTP? If I knew, I would buy a box of the ammo and pull a bullet and weigh the charge so I could duplicagte it.

[bobthenailer]

The 8.0 & 9.0 gr load was shot with a pb bullet and a gc bullet with no ck . accuracy is excellent ,and no leading