Author Topic: Rifling twist?  (Read 1089 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Hud

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 213
    • http://photos.yahoo.com/stevehud58
Rifling twist?
« on: June 07, 2003, 09:26:50 AM »
I have a choice of 1 turn in 10" or one turn in 20" for my .475 cal rifle.

I will be pushing a jacketed 400 gr bullet between 2100fps and 2500fps.  I may also want to shoot Jktd 325grs at 2500+, lead 385s, and lead 400s at 1600fps. It seems to me that the 1 in 10 is the only way to go, but I may be missing something. What's all of your advise on this?  Thanks

Hud
"Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world; but you are standing where I am about to shoot."

I AM THE NRA...........Life Member.

Offline PaulS

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1120
Rifling twist?
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2003, 10:30:37 PM »
Hud,
I would go with your first impression, the 1:10 twist will stabilize the longest of bullets that you will be shooting. It is my experience that "over-stabilized" bullets fly better than those that are not sufficiently stabilized. The 1:20 twist is for round balls and black powder.

I have a .358 Winchester that shoots 158 grain pistol bullets to .33 inches at 100 yards with a 1:10 twist and at 2507 FPS. All the math says that these should be so "over-stabilized" that they wouldn't "settle" in until long past any usable range. It also shoots 180 grain bullets to nearly the same size groups - a bullet that should stabilize with a 1:12 twist and be overstabilized with the 1:10 barrel.

Long and short of it - Go with more twist than less whenever there is doubt.

PaulS
PaulS

Hodgdon, Lyman, Speer, Sierra, Hornady = reliable resources
so and so's pages on the internet = not reliable resources
Alway check loads you find on the internet against manuals.
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads.

Offline S.B.

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3953
  • Gender: Male
Rifling twist?
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2003, 07:17:19 AM »
Hud, plug in the Green Hill theory with all of your data. You'll be able to see what twist you need. Green Hill theory is available on the net.
"The Original Point and Click Interface was a Smith & Wesson."
Life member of NRA, USPSA,ISRA
AF&AM #294
LIUNA #996 for the past 34 years/now retired!

Offline Ed Harris

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 56
Twist for lead bullet rifle
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2003, 02:11:19 PM »
You need to consider the pitch of rifling not in terms of inches per turn, but in "calibers" or the numbers of bullet diameters relative to the length of the projectile.    The Trap Door Springfield .45-70 had a twist of 20" per turn, and stabilized blunt 500-gr bullets adequately to 1000 yards.  the .458 Winchester has a twist of 14" per turn and gives a greater measure of gyroscopic stability to prevent yaw during penetrations of large animals by non-expending projectiles.  

A twist as fast as 10" per turn in a .45 caliber would be excessive and unnecessary, but would be a good choice for long pointed boattail bullets such as the 200-gr. Matchking or M72 Match in the .30-'06, or for long, parallel sided 220-gr. roundnosed buletsm, as were used in the Krag rifle.

The Greenhill  rule works very well, despite its simplcity.  It states that the rifling twist in calibers times the twist in calibers should equal the constant 150.  This gives a safe margin of stability to even allow for pointed and boattail bullets.  For blunt-nosed, flatbased bullets in target grade barrels with carefully prepared loads you can get good results for target work with a slower twist, but I would not recommend in any circumstances using a twist slower than implied by using the Greenhill formula adjusted by using the constant 200.

If you would like a good lab problem in aerodynamics and engineering mechanics, go to the public library and look up the article by Col. E.H. Harrison, USA (Ret.) entitled Determining Projectile Stability, which appeared in American Rifleman in July, 1962 p. 50.    

I wrote a condensed and simplified version which appeared in American Rifleman August 1983 p. 48.
In Home Mix We Trust
From the Home of Ed's Red
73 de KE4SKY

Offline S.B.

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3953
  • Gender: Male
Rifling twist?
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2003, 03:12:41 PM »
Ed Harris, a sophisticated answer to a question answered simply by looking up the Greenhill Theory.
"The Original Point and Click Interface was a Smith & Wesson."
Life member of NRA, USPSA,ISRA
AF&AM #294
LIUNA #996 for the past 34 years/now retired!

Offline oso45-70

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1918
  • Gender: Male
custom rifles
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2003, 05:35:22 PM »
HUD, looks like you got lots of good info. i sure can't top all that, but i wanted to say, i love the deal at the bottom of your page, cracks me up.
have a good day, stay safe,,,,,,,,,joe
LIFE NRA BENEFACTOR
LEAA LIFE MEMBER
GOA MEMBER
CCKBA MEMBER
AF & AM
NAHC LIFE
NMSSA MEMBER
ATA MEMBER

Profanity is the crutch of a crippled brain