Author Topic: Good loads for a 45-70 handi (Read 2042 times)

DaveW · « **on:** February 24, 2011, 10:04:58 AM »

Hi all. New to the sight and wanted to ask for some advice. I bought a 45-70 handi last year and love it! A joy to shoot and you can't ignore the wonderful history of the cartridge. My question comes from a lack of desire to spend 40 bucks on a box of shells. Should be getting my new Lee reloading kit next week and I'm looking for some decent load info. All I've shot through it so far are rem. 405 jsp. I like the idea of the heavier bullet (if wanted to use a fast, light bullet I would just shoot my 300 win mag). So my question for you is....do any of you have a good starting point for loading the heavy bullets i.e. 400-450 grains that are not so juiced up that it kicks like a mule. I want to keep it pleasant to shoot (again if I'm looking for recoil I'll go with the 300) but save some money and if I can improve on factory performance that's a bonus for sure. Powder? Bullet? Any advice would be great.

Also want to say it's nice to see a big group of people who love these guns. I love the looks on the faces of the other guys at the range when I pull this short rifle with a great big hole in the end out of the case, and lob a few down the range. I think my favorite part is that satisfying SMACK when it hits the board. It groups well with the factory loads but as I said, would like to start "rolling my own".

gcrank1 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 24, 2011, 10:16:34 AM »

Mine likes .458 dia. cast bullets; Ive been testing 300, 340, 405, and yet to get into the 500ish until I have a farther target range opened up. It doent seem to be fussy about the weight, those of like weight and a given load are dropping into the same place.
Try 11-13.0 Unique, 19-21gr. IMR 4227, 14-19gr. Trail Boss for fun, pleasant shooting.

nebrguy · « **Reply #2 on:** March 01, 2011, 03:33:32 AM »

My 45-70 Handi load is a Rem. 405 gr. JSP on top of 32.0 grs. of IMR 4198. It is accurate, reasonably mild, has proven to be a quick whitetail stopper, and is close to original ballistics.

Smokin Joe · « **Reply #3 on:** March 01, 2011, 04:33:37 AM »

Dave, if you want to calm it down a bit, here's some low velocity loads. Use the pull-down menu on the left:

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

gcrank1 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 01, 2011, 04:47:07 AM »

I find it interesting and significant on that data that with the 405gr. has its best group size at about 1000fps MV with those powders, some of which I use with satisfaction.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #5 on:** March 01, 2011, 04:48:58 AM »

Mine shoots a 400 Speer at about 1600 very nicely. Mr whitetail couldn't be "deader" when bullets are put inthe pump house.

The handi will easilly take heavy loads, but most shooters shoulders give out first. I prefer my Marlin or Browning for my near 2100fps loadings with same 400 gr slug.

CW

petemi · « **Reply #6 on:** March 01, 2011, 04:53:57 AM »

I'm a Handiholic and have only been reloading for a little less than a year, so I'm not an expert. I load each Handi to the max load they shoot well with and leave it there. My .45-70 loves 45.8 gr. IMR 4198 and a 405 gr. Rem running at about 1950 fps. That's what it shoots best with. It aint a bench rest load. It'll hammer you. But, I can always take a smaller caliber Handi to shoot if I just want to punch holes in paper, smaller game, or jugs. The .357 Maximum is great for that shooting .38s, Mags and Maxis. So is the .445 SM with .44 Sps., 44 Mags and the .445. The .45-70 is wonderful because you can load it to whatever you're comfortable with. I'm too old and lazy to be changing scopes up and down when I change loads, so I just make one good load for each and keep it there. I'm working now with the .500 S&W, and it is showing great potential.

Pete

bikerbeans · « **Reply #7 on:** March 01, 2011, 09:22:22 AM »

Dave,

Hi & Welcome. Google search for load data from Hodgdon, Ramshot & Accurate, which all have 45-70 data available online for free. Look at the loads listed as "Trapdoor" these are the lowest pressure of 3 groups of 45-70 data. Trapdoor loads will probably be in the recoil range you are looking for.

The website that Joe posted for the low velocity loads is a good source also. These loads use fast burning pistol powders and tend to be at or near subsonic velocity. These loads may not be all that good for hunting but they are great plinkers and are cheapier than using rifle powder. I can launch a 525 grain postel bullet with as little as 9 grains of 700X, real slow poke, about 825 FPS.

BB

Catshooter45 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 01, 2011, 09:24:48 AM »

In my .45-70 Handi I like a 365 grain cast, sized .459, over Universal Clays. I've used up to 15 grains and that gives me about 1350 fps. A mild load. From your post I think I would start with nine or ten grains, should be quite pleasant.

It's a great caliber.

Cat

gcrank1 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 01, 2011, 01:41:32 PM »

FWIW, I just tried 10.0 of RedDot today at 50yd. with 350 and 405 cast bullets (from the lowveldata of the Joe post) and it is fine. I do not (will NOT) use a wad down on the powder to hold it back against the powder for fear of chamber rings developing. No paper groups but they went right were I was scoping each shot and are about as cheap and user friendly as I think you can get.

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 01, 2011, 01:54:56 PM »

Here is one I've used!

http://www.reloadammo.com/4570load.htm

keith44 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 01, 2011, 03:44:02 PM »

Hi Dave
All loads listed in the replies look safe, and reasonable. I will not claim to be an expert re-loader, or to know it all, anyone claiming that should be avoided. (I'll explain that another day) I do have 25+ years at the reloading bench and have been working with .45-70 since 2004 in the Handi Rifle.

There are many loads that work well in the Handi. Your best bet for low recoil is lighter bullet weights. In mine 405 gr cast shot best, out to 125 yards, 500 gr cast bullets while slow are fun to target shoot with out around 250 yards, and beyond. (Some shoot 1,000 yards with 45-70 and 500+ gr bullets and black powder) For hunting deer, the 300 to 350 ish gr bullets kill quicker than the 400 and 405 grainers. (not just my opinion others have found this to be true as well) For boar and animals with thicker skin, and heavier bone than whitetail deer move up to the 400 grain bullets. 300 grain bullets over 63 gr of 3F black powder (goex) kicked more than any mule ever could, smokeless loads are alot tamer. I do not use pistol, or shotgun powder, the 45-70 case is just too big for those powders, and there have been many documented cases of using too little of too fast of a powder causing damage to chambers of some very strong rifles, and frame ruptures of some lever action rifles. Many people fire many hundreds of loads using these powders, with no ill effects.
My favorite powder for the 45-70 is IMR 3031. With this powder your shoulder will make you stop long before the pressures cause you to stop increasing the powder charge. Get a good loading manual, and one of the caliber specific booklets from Midwayusa, or cabela's.

Oh and one more thing, have fun!!

manatee1947 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 01, 2011, 04:04:01 PM »

I shoot the Lyman 330 gr 458122 bullet or a Lee 340 gr and 32.5 gr of 4198, 0r 26-28 gr of SR 4759, that is 1450-1550 fps, real sweetheart loads. Also took many deer with them.

Flynmoose · « **Reply #13 on:** March 01, 2011, 05:45:05 PM »

I use the 405gr Remingtons with SR4759 powder. Doesn't abuse my arthritic shoulder and really
moves the swinging steel gong! I use it in my 24" Encore and my 30" Pedersoli rolling block.
FM

DaveW · « **Reply #14 on:** March 02, 2011, 04:48:41 AM »

Hey guys, thank you for all the info. I will try some of these loads for sure. I get to go shopping saturday (with the wife's permission) and will get all the toys I need. I looked around online and found some great info for trapdoor and light lever loads. I'm not scared of recoil I just think that if I have a 300-400 grain bullet going downrange, there is no reason to make it go incredibly fast. The hunting I will be doing with the handi will mainly be for whitetails, (with the occasional black bear taken over bait at less than 100 yards) so I think some of these easy on the shoulder loads will be the ticket. Don't think the deer that has a 350 grain bullet go through its lungs will care how fast it's moving! Also,(I know this is off topic) I am very excited to load some smoking 300 win mag loads. I'm gonna try some 220 grainers. Looking for a hammer on elk. No escaping the recoil on that one! Thank God for limb savers! Any how. Thanks again for all the responses and the hearty welcome, hopefully be able to write you guys back in a week or so with some results.

petemi · « **Reply #15 on:** March 02, 2011, 06:03:51 AM »

I can't say this for a fact, because I've never done it. But, I think a fully loaded .45-70 will do anything a 300 mag can except shoot flat. That's not a problem if you shoot it and learn it. This oughta wake up some replies.

Pete

Shu · « **Reply #16 on:** March 02, 2011, 06:18:02 AM »

There are alot of great 45-70 loads, I use 9 grains of bullseye and a cast 405. Or 12 grains of unique and a cast 405. These are both sub sonic and my youngest daughter shoots the heck out of it.

Moving to IMR 4198 is a good powder to start with. If your headed shopping get a reloader manual. My Pops got me into the 45-70 stuff. He always said for accuaracy go with Imr 4198, for a tiny bit of less accuaracy and alot more velocity Imr 3031. Some here find the AA5744 to be outstanding. The 45-70 isn't real picky. When I say more and less accuarate I am talking maybe a 1/2 inch difference. To me that is nothing.

Just my opinion unless your shots are going to be well over 200 yards the 45-70 is the do all caliber. My personal limit is 200 yards for this caliber your milage may vary.

DaveW · « **Reply #17 on:** March 02, 2011, 07:01:55 AM »

The only time I worry about 200+ yard shots is when I'm elk hunting. Took my elk last year at 390 yards with one shot from the 300. I would not feel comfortable taking a shot like that with the 45-70, 200 will be pushing it. I would worry about wounding the animal much more than just missing it clean.

Most of my shots on deer and bears are between 50 and 150 yards, just what I wanted the 45-70 for. So I just went and priced some powders etc. and found the store I will buy them at. $6 less a pound than the competitor. So I'm thinking about 4198 to start but, H4198 or IMR 4198? Also, anyone used varget? I have found load info for the 45-70, 300 win mag, and my wifes 243 win, all using varget powder. Any opinions? I figure I will start with 3-4 powders and see what I like the best.

Also going to buy a manual (of course) as well as the manuals for specific calibers. So many choices as far as powder, bullets, primers etc. that it's a little bit overwhelming. Hard to find a place to start with so much info. Going to be fun to figure it out though. Going to be even more fun to kill something with ammo I made myself!

keith44 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 02, 2011, 10:44:39 AM »

Dave,
Shu, and Pete have valid points. In a hunting situation, with the high arc of the 45-70's trajectory 200 yards is a good practical limit. It is hard to estimate the range accurately enough for the 45-70 much past 150 yards. Because of this I use higher velocity loads and am willing to settle for 2 inch groups at 100 yards for hunting ammo. The vast majority of the game I shoot is taken at 50 yards and under, my last buck was taken at 10 feet, with both of us playing cat and mouse for more than 3 hours.

If you have data for any powder that you can use in all three rifles, go for it. Just don't be afraid to try a different powder in the future if you don't like the way one or more gun shoots using the powder you choose to start with.
I started with W231 in .38 spcl but have switched to clays for several reasons.
That's part of the fun of loading your own, you can match the ammo to the gun in a way that factory ammo just can't equal.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 02, 2011, 11:20:35 AM »

I dont remember who to quote for this reference, but he said to use a load that will stay within +1.5" to -1.5" for big game and you will do fine.
Makes way too much good sense..........

bikerbeans · « **Reply #20 on:** March 02, 2011, 12:35:52 PM »

Dave,

I have gotten 3/4" 100 yard 3 shot groups with the REM 405SPs over 49 grains of H4198 & WIN LR primer. 2.625 OAL. This is the most accurate round I have found for my 22" 45/70 Handi. It is also a fairly stiff load in the upper end of the lever gun data. No chrony but per published data should be 1800 to 1900 fps. I believe Petemi has this bullet in the same velocity range using the IMR4198.

BB

gcrank1 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 02, 2011, 02:02:36 PM »

Until you get on the top end of loads there isnt a whole lot of difference in the IMR vs H series of powder, number for number.

NickSS · « **Reply #22 on:** March 02, 2011, 10:32:33 PM »

A good powder that I have not seen mentioned is Accurate Arms 5744. A 400 gr bullet and 27 gr of this stuff is super accurate in several of my rifles. It is going about as fast as a black powder load and will kill deer just fine out to 100-125 yards. You can easily bump up the load to 32 to 35 gr for more velocity if desired but that does little to the trajectory. Of course if you want to kill Kodiak bear or elephants try a 405 gr SP over 54 gr of 4895 or a 500 gr solid over 53 gr of the same stuff. I would not recommend target shooting with these loads and to sight the rifle in put a sand bag between you and the rifle.

DaveW · « **Reply #23 on:** March 05, 2011, 06:40:33 AM »

Ok guys I made some cartridges. For the easy shooting, I went with 43 grns of 4198 with a 350 grn RN. Also loaded some stiffies, 47 grns of 4198 behind the same bullet. Then tried some Varget, 54 grns, same bullet. I know I asked for easy loads but the ballistics on these couldn't be ignored, so I'll suck up some recoil and let you guys know how it goes. I really like this reloading thing, it's fun!

BBF · « **Reply #24 on:** March 05, 2011, 08:09:56 AM »

Quote from: DaveW on March 05, 2011, 06:40:33 AM

Ok guys I made some cartridges. For the easy shooting, I went with 43 grns of 4198 with a 350 grn RN. ......................... I know I asked for easy loads but the ballistics on these couldn't be ignored, so I'll suck up some recoil .............

You will be sucking up some recoil even with the 43 gr of IMR 4198 and that 350 gr. bullet.!!!

I have never used Varget for the 45-70 so I can't comment other then I doubt it would be any more fun to use then the other load.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 05, 2011, 10:45:09 AM »

It doesnt have to kill on both ends to do the job, but if you like it, go for it

!

DaveW · « **Reply #26 on:** March 05, 2011, 06:52:58 PM »

The rounds all shot great! I really don't see any of these as being heavy in the recoil department. Kinda shoves you but nothing painful. I don't think they kick much more than my 20 gauge with a high based shell. Tried some off hand just to be sure and then shot a few off of a rest. Maybe been shooting magnums for too long but these were pleasant, even with a pretty good crimp. All loads were level 2s, I don't see any reason to shoot the ruger level loads, these will work great. Thanks for all the info!