Author Topic: New kind of... and I need some help  (Read 949 times)

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Offline SuperKirby

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New kind of... and I need some help
« on: February 03, 2011, 05:15:53 PM »
I signed up here a few years ago and due to financial issues and new kids I wasn't able to make my gun purchase as planned.  Well now I'm back in the market for something, I just don't know what to do for sure.
In about a month I get to buy (and she says the last... for awhile) a new gun - but can't decide if I want a G2 or Pro Hunter frame.  I shoot primarily muzzleloaders right now, but have a growing interest in the long distance handgun hunting and shooting. I know that I want stainless so if I go G2 it will probably have to be custom as I can't find a stainless ML barrel anywhere. If I go with the Pro Hunter I will probably get the 20" Katahdin barrel. I do a lot of hunting in heavy cover so I've got it narrowed down to at least something smallish. My next barrel will be a handgun barrel, either 7-30 Waters if I get a G2 or a 270 if I go with a Pro Hunter.
I should mention that I have a 357 Herret and 45-70 for an original Contender, but I also know it will be used as a muzzleloader more than anything. My biggest concern with a muzzleloader barrel in the G2 is I would probably have to go custom, and bullberry is 600+. I still have to talk to MGM to see what they would charge, but I can't even consider it if it's $500 or more.  Right now I want a G2 more, but the Pro Hunter is more affordable.
So, what would you all do?

Offline Dezynco

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Re: New kind of... and I need some help
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2011, 02:53:29 AM »
Just my 2 bits worth....

I prefer the Contender (G2 or Original) as a handgun.  There are several calibers available for it that are plenty of medicine for "long range" handgunning.  For example, the 7-30 Waters, 6.5x30, etc.  I figure that 200 yards, give or take, is about the maximum range for ANY handgun (or any handgun shooter for that matter).  Plus the Contender weighs about 2 pounds less than a similarly equipped Encore.

Now if I needed a "long range" rifle, then the Encore would definately be the way to go because of the larger calibers that are available for it.

Another thing to keep in mind....technically, and legally, you are not supposed to swap either the Contender or the Encore around from rifle to pistol to muzzleloader.  I know that folks do it, but read the "sticky" at the top of the forum, then make your own decisions about that.

Hope this helps you in your decision making, both the Contender and the Encore are a lot of fun!

Offline Ladobe

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Re: New kind of... and I need some help
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2011, 04:17:27 AM »
...There are several calibers available for it that are plenty of medicine for "long range" handgunning.  For example, the 7-30 Waters, 6.5x30, etc.  I figure that 200 yards, give or take, is about the maximum range for ANY handgun (or any handgun shooter for that matter)...

You're joking, right?   200 yards isn't even a good "stretch of the legs" for a Contender or Encore handgun.    More like a short walk.
 ::) 

Guess "long range" has different meanings to different people, and some can and some can't shoot handguns well.
 ;)

Evolution at work. Over two million years ago the genus Homo had small cranial capacity and thick skin to protect them from their environment. One species has evolved into obese cranial fatheads with thin skin in comparison that whines about anything and everything as their shield against their environment. Meus

Offline Lawful Larry

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Re: New kind of... and I need some help
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2011, 06:52:01 AM »
I am partial to the Contender and the manner in which the forends are attached to the barrels.   I always believed that the idea of screwing the forend screw directly into the barrel instead of into a floated nutplate  attached  to the barrel in a dovetail makes for a more accurate platform.  My thoughts of course.

I went the G2 and old frame Contender route and have 10 barrels.  I don't have a rifle set up with my Contender.  I have thought of trying it,  but just haven't gotten off my butt!  If I do I am toying with the idea of a 7x30 Waters barrel.  I think this would make a great carbine.

Hey  Ladobe, don'tbe so harsh pal.  Some people don't believe  in  long range handgun shooting of any kind. 

Now as for me, let me at it!!!      8)
Just another voice in the crowd!!!

 

Offline Dezynco

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Re: New kind of... and I need some help
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2011, 01:37:28 PM »
Quote
You're joking, right?   200 yards isn't even a good "stretch of the legs" for a Contender or Encore handgun.    More like a short walk.

Well OK!  I'll give in on that.  I've shot plenty of times at targets at 300 yards, and further.  It's just that I'm thinking about deer hunting, not target shooting (I've guess I've still got deer hunting on my mind since the season just ended here).  I'm not personally comfortable with shooting a critter further than 200 - 250 yards.  I can do that with calibers available in the Contender.

I've also got a Contender set up as a carbine in 375 Winchester, it's my favorite, and I've got lots of rifles to pick from.

Offline Ladobe

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Re: New kind of... and I need some help
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2011, 09:07:06 PM »
Lawful,

Not meant as harse at all pard, just teasing Mr. D since I and many other Contender handgunners commonly used them for "real" long range hunting successfully, for big and small game.   Lots of folks don't have the experience and so skills to do so.   That isn't a put down either, just the way it is.   Sounds like you too like very small targets at very long ranges (predator and varmint hunting have been my favorite types of hunting for over 50 years); don't shy away from long shots on big game and might also prefer using the specialty pistols for all of them instead of rifles like I did for well over 35 years.     


Mr. D,

I only yanked your chain because of the "ANY" comment for maximum range for handguns and handgunners.   And I was not referring to target shooting, but for hunting.   But I respect your ethics with handguns to not use them beyond what you feel confident and comfortable with for hunting.   

Contender handguns chambered for the right cartridges are capable on many of our big game species at least to 500 yards, and on varmints at twice that if a shooter knows its ballisitics with the load being shot, has it sighted in for the PBR of the quarry intended at the long ranges possible, and has the experience (practice) with it at those ranges "in field postions" to have the techniques to accomplish it.    None of that comes easy, but it can be achieved over many years of doing it if a shooter works toward that goal.   One nice thing about very long range, a good hit is a good hit, and a miss is usually a clean miss, probably more often than not from an error in range or wind estimation if not technique.    That's still way more respectful for the animal than the hoards who throw "Hail Mary's" with rifles every year hunting big game, and at much shorter ranges.   There are lots of places where 500, let alone 1000 yards shots are not possible, let along safe or ethical in this country.    But here in the wide open west with endless miles of natural, unihabited land long shots can be common for any species, and taken as long safely as a hunter feels capable of.   By nature I feel most handgunner hunters practice a lot more with them than rifle hunters do for hunting (especially for big game), because they have to if they want to be an ethical hunter and a successful hunter.   All too often in my "rifle" days I remember people who were otherwise ethical hunters that commonly didn't shoot their hunting rifles except on hunts, and to "check sights" just before the next one.   Many handguns shoot them year round, and for several species from small to big, if for no other reason than practice for when the big game seasons open, while few rifle big game hunters normally don't use those rifles for anything else.

Regardless, no hunter should go past what they are comfortable with using a chosen firearm no matter what it is, and therefore capable of doing humanely out of respect for the game, not even an old Contender and specialty pistol salt like me.   I remember a few yeasr ago when an old shooting buddy took an AZ elk well past 500 yards with his 338JDJ#2 Contender pistol.   He is a very ethical hunter and an excellent shot with a Contender with many years experiance shooting them in hunting situations.   He was glad to get it, but bothered that it took him more than one shot to get the job done.   He hit it with every shot, but if I remember it took 4 to kill it at that range, with a couple that were poor hits.   

I respect varmints as much as I do big game, and predators more than any of them when hunting.  They all deserve humane kills.   So I gave free passes a lot, and on any species when I felt I couldn't do that.   Just left them for another day.  Meant my family ate slow elk (cow) some winters instead of wild game, much better than wounding an animal and loosing it.   Didn't matter what species either.   Loosing a wounded ground squirrel down its burrow was as hard as loosing big game for me even though we didn't noramally eat GS's (I have though).

Sorry if I wore you gents out with this.   But please take my previous post and this as intended - not to belittle anyone.   We are brothers with like minds and with many common goals.   We may have different opinions from experience is all.


L.


 
Evolution at work. Over two million years ago the genus Homo had small cranial capacity and thick skin to protect them from their environment. One species has evolved into obese cranial fatheads with thin skin in comparison that whines about anything and everything as their shield against their environment. Meus

Offline Dezynco

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Re: New kind of... and I need some help
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2011, 01:41:59 AM »
No offense taken, I knew what you meant....

500 yards is a LOONG WAY!  I can't even see that far!  LOL

Like I said, I feel comfortable out to 250 yards (on deer), maybe 300.  I can shoot that far with my 7x30 Waters with my G2 Contender.  No need for the extra weight of the Encore.  Not a thing wrong with the Encore (as a pistol), just not my 'druther.

I would suggest to the OP to perhaps try to get hands on each and try them out.  I started with an Encore pistol in .308 Winchester.  It was a really great shooter, but as with most rifle caliber handguns, you need to load them down a bit to get the most out of them.  The relatively short barrel simply cannot burn all the powder that a longer barrel can, therefore it comes out the end of the barrel as a BIG fireball.  I could load the 308 down a bit, get the same velocity, and reduce that nerve rattling muzzle blast.  Guess what I ended up with....

......a hot loaded 30-30 Winchester in a 7 pound handgun.  I sold  the Encore and got a G2 Contender in 30-30 Winchester.  I'm not too recoil sensitive, so the lighter weight is an advantage for me.  I now have 8 different barrels for my G2.

I wish some Encore handgunners would pipe in now and let us know what they think.

Offline shot1

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Re: New kind of... and I need some help
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2011, 03:12:35 AM »
If you want a 30 cal in a Contender I would suggest the 30-30AI. It is a BIG improvement over the standard 30-30. You can get a touch better velocity out of a 14" AI than you can out of a 20/22" barrel standard 30-30 rifle. Lee makes a set of loading dies for the AI that don't break the bank. And in a pinch you can shoot factory 30-30 Win ammo in it. I have a 14" SS Shilen barrel made my MGM and it is a tack driver. With a 125 Nosler ballistic tip at average 2670 fps it is a deer hammer.

Offline SuperKirby

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Re: New kind of... and I need some help
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2011, 03:52:42 AM »
I decided to pass on the Pro Hunter for now.  It was a good deal, but I don't think the best I can find.  I'm going to what I understand to be the biggest gun show I'll ever attend down in Minneapolis in mid-March.  I decided to wait and see if I can't find stainless G2 muzzleloader barrel there.  Otherwise I may still go Encore or else blued G2.  Haven't really decided for sure but I have some time.

Offline EdK

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Re: New kind of... and I need some help
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2011, 04:24:55 AM »

Superkirby,

You can get a quality hard chrome job on a blued G2 barrel that will not only provide a good color match but also give you extreme corrosion resistance for not a lot of money.

http://www.mahovskysmetalife.com

This company has a good reputation and is used by some TC custom barrel makers.

Ladobe,

I cannot agree with you on the definition of a "very ethical hunter".

Offline xphunter

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Re: New kind of... and I need some help
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2011, 04:15:55 PM »
Ladobe,
Looks  like you had a good catharsis there :o ;D ;)
Long-range is different for everyone. 
More importantly, long-range is a personal thing. What may be long-range for one person may not be for another.
The key here is your own accomplishments, not comparison of others.
E

Lawful,

Not meant as harse at all pard, just teasing Mr. D since I and many other Contender handgunners commonly used them for "real" long range hunting successfully, for big and small game.   Lots of folks don't have the experience and so skills to do so.   That isn't a put down either, just the way it is.   Sounds like you too like very small targets at very long ranges (predator and varmint hunting have been my favorite types of hunting for over 50 years); don't shy away from long shots on big game and might also prefer using the specialty pistols for all of them instead of rifles like I did for well over 35 years.     


Mr. D,

I only yanked your chain because of the "ANY" comment for maximum range for handguns and handgunners.   And I was not referring to target shooting, but for hunting.   But I respect your ethics with handguns to not use them beyond what you feel confident and comfortable with for hunting.   

Contender handguns chambered for the right cartridges are capable on many of our big game species at least to 500 yards, and on varmints at twice that if a shooter knows its ballisitics with the load being shot, has it sighted in for the PBR of the quarry intended at the long ranges possible, and has the experience (practice) with it at those ranges "in field postions" to have the techniques to accomplish it.    None of that comes easy, but it can be achieved over many years of doing it if a shooter works toward that goal.   One nice thing about very long range, a good hit is a good hit, and a miss is usually a clean miss, probably more often than not from an error in range or wind estimation if not technique.    That's still way more respectful for the animal than the hoards who throw "Hail Mary's" with rifles every year hunting big game, and at much shorter ranges.   There are lots of places where 500, let alone 1000 yards shots are not possible, let along safe or ethical in this country.    But here in the wide open west with endless miles of natural, unihabited land long shots can be common for any species, and taken as long safely as a hunter feels capable of.   By nature I feel most handgunner hunters practice a lot more with them than rifle hunters do for hunting (especially for big game), because they have to if they want to be an ethical hunter and a successful hunter.   All too often in my "rifle" days I remember people who were otherwise ethical hunters that commonly didn't shoot their hunting rifles except on hunts, and to "check sights" just before the next one.   Many handguns shoot them year round, and for several species from small to big, if for no other reason than practice for when the big game seasons open, while few rifle big game hunters normally don't use those rifles for anything else.

Regardless, no hunter should go past what they are comfortable with using a chosen firearm no matter what it is, and therefore capable of doing humanely out of respect for the game, not even an old Contender and specialty pistol salt like me.   I remember a few yeasr ago when an old shooting buddy took an AZ elk well past 500 yards with his 338JDJ#2 Contender pistol.   He is a very ethical hunter and an excellent shot with a Contender with many years experiance shooting them in hunting situations.   He was glad to get it, but bothered that it took him more than one shot to get the job done.   He hit it with every shot, but if I remember it took 4 to kill it at that range, with a couple that were poor hits.   

I respect varmints as much as I do big game, and predators more than any of them when hunting.  They all deserve humane kills.   So I gave free passes a lot, and on any species when I felt I couldn't do that.   Just left them for another day.  Meant my family ate slow elk (cow) some winters instead of wild game, much better than wounding an animal and loosing it.   Didn't matter what species either.   Loosing a wounded ground squirrel down its burrow was as hard as loosing big game for me even though we didn't noramally eat GS's (I have though).

Sorry if I wore you gents out with this.   But please take my previous post and this as intended - not to belittle anyone.   We are brothers with like minds and with many common goals.   We may have different opinions from experience is all.


L.
Ernie
"If you think you are perfect, just try walking on water!"

Offline Ladobe

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Re: New kind of... and I need some help
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2011, 02:47:59 PM »
Hey Ed, long time.   Opinions vary, nothing wrong with that at all.   But if you are referring to Mike since that's where I used that term I think, he is a very ethical hunter.   I doubt you have hunted with him or shot handcannons with him long range many times like I have over the years, but he is very capable with them at surprising ranges in field positions, and gives free passes if he is not confident he can make the first shot.   The bull went down hard with the first shot.   He had the elevation spot on but was just a little off on the windage.   The bull was not going anywhere, it would have soon died and not got away, but he did the follow up to make it so quicker for the bull out of respect for it.   Taking a well  placed follow up shot(s) is not unethical once you've taken the responsibilty to shoot and knock an animal down in the first place IMO.   The bull died in a very short period of time, way faster than many other big game animals die routinely even with a single good hit where a hunter waits for it to die from asphyxiation or blood loss, especially those that run up to hundreds of yards before piling up.   So his follow up was much more humane IMO, even if it took 3 hits to get an instant one at an animal that was probably thrasing around to do it.

Hi Ernie,
Not purging old friend, just trying to make sure my comments hadn't offend anybody by explaining them with probably far to much detail.   A product of the written word on forums not always conveying intended meaning or attitude.   Besides, once a bucket mouth always a bucket mouth I guess. ;)   
I agree, the key is only take the shot at the ranges you feel confident that you can make the shot at, all of the time, and not one you are just giving your best effort to accomplish at any range range you feel iffy about.   Free passes are ethical, far more humane and respectful.   There'll be another day and another opportunity.   I've "killed" far more targets at long range than game to build that confidence over many years, but they don't taste as good.    ;D
Evolution at work. Over two million years ago the genus Homo had small cranial capacity and thick skin to protect them from their environment. One species has evolved into obese cranial fatheads with thin skin in comparison that whines about anything and everything as their shield against their environment. Meus

Offline xphunter

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Re: New kind of... and I need some help
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2011, 02:51:21 PM »
Hey, I was just messing with ya ;D
Always enjoy your posts.
E
Ernie
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Offline EdK

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Re: New kind of... and I need some help
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2011, 04:23:06 PM »
Ladobe I'll give you that the elk experience sounds a lot better on your second try so thanks for that. I do not have a problem with the 500 yard shots - must have been the way that first version was written is all.