B.C. reloading ?

[.Dirty-.30]

I loaded some cartridges for my Buffalo Classic today, used H4198 with a starting load of 47gr working up to 50gr. Loaded Berrys 350gr plated bullets to an overall cartridge length of 2.440 due to the short throat in my rifle.

Fired all the sample weights and the curved metal butt plate tells me that at 50gr it could cause physical harm to a deer  Now I am gonna load up some 49.5, 50, and 50.5 to try for tightest group at 50 yards.

What would you guys think my feet per second would be roughly? I am soon to order a chronograph, but curiosity is killing me.

Do you guys have any advice for your short throated BC's and reloading for them?     .DT

[tacklebury]

I have the same gun and the same throat issue.  If you read up in the FAQ's there's some information on throating them.  You can rent a reamer from 4D or others and extend the depth slightly, depending on what you are trying to accomplish.  I never used Berry's bullets, but have loaded several other configurations with success.  I load the 325gr. FTX with no issue and good accuracy and have gotten nearly identical results with Hornady's 300gr. HP jacketed bullets.  I have had issues with other 350gr.+ bullets, but the hp took it's first deer this year.    I've heard good things about the Remington 405's by others here too.

[bikerbeans]

D-30,

Below is from the hodgdon website for the 45/70 - Level Gun Loads.  Same powder and weight bullet, different bullet type and OAL and I think you may be using a tad longer barrel.  This probably gets you in the ballpark for a velocity estimate, something over 2,000 FPS, maybe I have never messed with Berry's plated bullets so don't know what to expect from them.  Guess I should have copied the units, below is 48.5 grains for 2036 FPS & 54 grains for 2191 FPS.

BB


350 GR. HDY JRN  Hodgdon  H4198  .458"  2.540"  48.5  2036  32,200 CUP  54.0  2191  39,300 CUP 

[quickdtoo]

If you read Berry's recommendations for loads with their plated bullets, you'll see they aren't to be loaded fast.
Tim

http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q10-c1-How_fast_can_I_shoot_these_bullets.aspx

Velocities depend on the caliber, but as a rule of thumb, we recommend you don't shoot our plated bullets over 1200 feet-per-second. Our 44's actually shoot best around 1150 fps. 45's are generally good at 850-900 fps. Our bullets are not recommended for magnum velocities.

http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q9-c1-How_do_I_load_Berrys_Preferred_Plated_Bullets.aspx

Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads.

[Rustyinfla]

   Heck, it sounds like you'd be better shooting cast bullets.

[.Dirty-.30]

Thanks for the link Tim, can you tell us why?    Thanks   .DT

[quickdtoo]

Thin plating, jackets are roughly twice as thick or thicker, gas checks on cast bullets are ~.017" thick. They don't say what velocities to load the 45-70 bullets, but they do indicate they have thicker jackets. Ask them, then let us know what they say!!    http://www.berrysmfg.com/contact.aspx?n=716828

Tim

http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q12-c1-How_thick_is_the_jacket_on_your_bullets.aspx

Depending upon the caliber, the thickness of the plating on our bullets ranges from 3.5 up to 8 thousandths of an inch of plating on each side. This is thicker than paper and ensures no lead in your bore. The bullets designed for higher velocities (45-70, 500 S&W etc.) have the thickest plating.

[.Dirty-.30]

Thin plating, jackets are roughly twice as thick or thicker, gas checks on cast bullets are ~.017" thick. They don't say what velocities to load the 45-70 bullets, but they do indicate they have thicker jackets. Ask them, then let us know what they say!!    http://www.berrysmfg.com/contact.aspx?n=716828

Tim

http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q12-c1-How_thick_is_the_jacket_on_your_bullets.aspx

Depending upon the caliber, the thickness of the plating on our bullets ranges from 3.5 up to 8 thousandths of an inch of plating on each side. This is thicker than paper and ensures no lead in your bore. The bullets designed for higher velocities (45-70, 500 S&W etc.) have the thickest plating.

I emailed Berrys and here is what they had to say...

Joe,
 
Our 45-70 (.458 ) 350 Gr. RS bullet has approx. .0075 copper per side.
 
And, like our other copper plated rifle bullets, should be considered for plinker loads - it has a velocity limit of not over 1700 FPS.
 
Good Luck,
 
Bud Watson
Berry's Mfg Inc

[.Dirty-.30]

Tim, what would you expect could happen if I continue loading and shooting these at 2050fps to 2150fps? Or shall I test and tell all?   

[quickdtoo]

Bore leading and poor accuracy just like shooting cast bullets too fast, specially if they're to small for the bore.

Tim

[manatee1947]

I have hunted for years with cast bullets , 330 gr using 34gr of 4198. I figure about 1550 fps. They are very accurate, don't jar my dentures, and I have never recovered one from any deer.

[gcrank1]

For some a chrono is useful (and I have one but rarely use it after the initial 'new toy' wore off) and maybe the best use is finding a load with a small 'std. deviation' shot ot shot rather than top velocity. Thats a bunch of shots spent mostly looking to make sure you are shooting through the right place to get a register and then you arent doing your best to make a group downrange. Some have tried to do both at the same time and some have shot their chrono (not me, BTW, but my wife keeps reminding me that a man can only think about one thing at a time).
So, I suggest you use that chrono money to buy more powder, primers and bullets and shoot.
Regarding throating, that case is pretty big and if you pick whatever bullet weight you want to use and find a powder that fills the case below it (lots of powders to choose from, you can find one) you will have more than enough velo for most purposes with out special throating.
If you need more capacity, well, you know that better than I.
But, hey, Its YOUR gun, do whatever you want with it, just do it safely and have fun!

[Mike in Virginia]

I've tried unsuccessfully to reload mine.  It prints Remington JSP's in the ten ring at 100 yards, but my carefully built reloads are all over the place.  I mean like 2' groups.  My reloads are all Unique and Trailboss, under 325 and 405 hardcast.  Trailboss was the worst.  I tried everything from 12.0 grains to 16.0 grains.  I think I'll stick with factory fodder.

[tacklebury]

Mike are you using a good solid crimp?  I use a Lee Factory Crimp Die and make sure it's firm enough that the bullets cannot spin, but not tight enough to deform the bullets.  I was having a little issue with variability until I started really being careful to seat to the same depth about 2-4 thousandths off the rifling and good crimps.  Was getting about 2-3" groups at 100 yards with the FTX loads (first I tried with the .45-70) and after starting to use the FCD it dropped down to just above or below an inch.  I think the straight walled (or nearly straight in this case) rounds really necessitate a good crimp.  I have had the same findings in .45 colt.  The only unique loads I've made are round ball loads, which will do 2-3" at 100 if it isn't too windy.  Other than that I'd recommend trying out Reloader7 for the .45-70 as I have found it an excellent powder in loads from 34gr (trapdoor level) to 46.7gr (my goto do all load) to 52gr (Whoppin' load) levels.  Good clean burning too as I rarely do more than run a bore mop down it to get it shiny again when shooting.    I do find that I get my best groups with 5+ minutes between shots though also.  I keep the forearm down a bit although I haven't modified my factory BC stocks yet.    Good luck.

[manatee1947]

I have seen that from Tacklebury before elsewhere, and there must be something to it, because I also have a "747" load that is my best jacketed bullet load, 300 gr hp, and 47 gr of RL7.

[quickdtoo]

350gr Hornady RN and H322 @ 2027fps.

Tim

[tacklebury]

Nice shooting Tim!  That round nose and the 350 flat are the next two I'm going to do some testing with.  At 2k+ the hollow points put a BIG hole in deer.  lol

[gcrank1]

Cant tell you how many times Ive heard the sad tale of cast bullets that dont group. I believe that you are using bullets too small of dia. for the actual throat of the rifle. You can tell by trying to insert a bullet that you use into the fire-formed brass neck of a fired case. If it falls in, there is your problem.

[quickdtoo]

Nice shooting Tim!  That round nose and the 350 flat are the next two I'm going to do some testing with.  At 2k+ the hollow points put a BIG hole in deer.  lol

Thanks, here's a great buy on the RN. 

Tim

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=002854502B100

[tacklebury]

Great, thanks for the info.