Help with .45Colt to 44Mag conversion

[SmithAC]

I want to convert my bisley stainless 5.5in .45 to 4 5/8th 44mag.  I've been told that the cylinders and barrel from another blackhawk could be swapped.  Would that be the most cost efffective way to convert or should i sell and buy a new gun?  The gun had a Bowen action and trigger job and custom base pin installed. I've tried quite a few different loads but haven't been able to get a consistant load and based on several post on this forum i am wanting to convert to 44 w/ short barrel.  Thanks for any suggestions and comments.  Craig

[tacklebury]

I had to have a new barrel and cylinder set done at the factory for mine.  I'm sure there are smiths that can do it as well, but you might have as much into it as buying a new one and selling that.  I have many nice consistent .45 colt loads, however, so you might want to try some different powders/bullets and you might find something that works. 

[Lloyd Smale]

for what youll have into converting it you can probably pick up a used blackhawk in 44 and have both.

[Scibaer]

i second the notion of just buying a used blackhawk and leaving that bisley the way it is.
swapping out the barrel and cylinder is possible but for what it would cost you, picking up a used, like new blackhawk might be about the same cost.
then with 2 handguns, you'd have a few more options as for custom work and grips

[kynardsj]

Yep, two (or more) Rugers are always more fun than one.

[SmithAC]

OK, thanks for the replies. I will go for another ruger in 44mag and not do the swap.  I do like the bisley gun and w/ the action & trigger job makes it a pleasure to shoot even w/ heavy loads. I've tried quite a few loads w/ H110, Tightgroup and HS6 in cast bullets from 265 to 300gr.  I went with the 45Colt after reading the Lindbaugh articles about the 45Colt myth. 

Tacklebury - I'm curious, what was the cost on the cyl & barrel set from the factory? Was it in 45Colt ?

[Frank V]

SmithAC, I like the Ruger .45 too & it will handle the heavy loads. The caution I'd advise is being careful to not get those loads into a Colt or Colt strength gun. They could ruin it.
  Getting a new or good used Ruger .44 I think is a good idea. It's nice to have different tools for different purposes. Good luck on your search for a .44, don't forget you can shoot .44 Specials in the mag. & you will be in for a pleasant treat doing it.
Frank

[tacklebury]

Tacklebury - I'm curious, what was the cost on the cyl & barrel set from the factory? Was it in 45Colt ?

Yes, in my case it was due to very out of spec cylinder and barrel on a brand new firearm I purchased this February.  Basically, at 15 yards, it was impossible to hit a 2' x 2' target backstop with factory or reloaded ammo.  I called Ruger and they said I could send it back, but if they found no problem, I'd be charged for the time.  Well, it was useless to me as it was, so I spent the denero and sent it.  Less than 2 weeks later, it came back to me.  They never called, wrote or emailed me prior to making the fix.  They had to replace the barrel, both cylinders (it's a convertible .45 acp & .45 colt), and threw in a free trigger and lock job.  When I got it back I took it out and fired off the other half box of factory ammo I had and was hitting clay pigeons at 35 yards and grouping sub 3" at that range.  I was able to consistently hit the 10 x 10 gong at my range at 50 yards and at 75 yards, I hit it 4 out of 6 times.  So it was definitely a problem with the gun.  After a few hundred more rounds, it's dialed in further and I plan to use it to smack a bambi this fall if the opportunity arises. 

[SmithAC]

Tacklebury - I'm curious, what was the cost on the cyl & barrel set from the factory? Was it in 45Colt ?

Yes, in my case it was due to very out of spec cylinder and barrel on a brand new firearm I purchased this February.  Basically, at 15 yards, it was impossible to hit a 2' x 2' target backstop with factory or reloaded ammo.  I called Ruger and they said I could send it back, but if they found no problem, I'd be charged for the time.  Well, it was useless to me as it was, so I spent the denero and sent it.  Less than 2 weeks later, it came back to me.  They never called, wrote or emailed me prior to making the fix.  They had to replace the barrel, both cylinders (it's a convertible .45 acp & .45 colt), and threw in a free trigger and lock job.  When I got it back I took it out and fired off the other half box of factory ammo I had and was hitting clay pigeons at 35 yards and grouping sub 3" at that range.  I was able to consistently hit the 10 x 10 gong at my range at 50 yards and at 75 yards, I hit it 4 out of 6 times.  So it was definitely a problem with the gun.  After a few hundred more rounds, it's dialed in further and I plan to use it to smack a bambi this fall if the opportunity arises. 

Wow that great.

[44 Man]

I did a conversion once from a .357 to a .44 special.  The barrel cost me $100.  Then to get it fit so the front sight was in the proper place when the barrel was tight and get the right cylinder gap was another $100.  I did not have to buy a cylinder so I saved about $100-$150 there, but boreing it out cost $60.  Had I had to change the cylinder I could easily have had $350-$400 into it.  You can usually fine a nice used gun for that or less.  Enjoy your new or converted gun, your choice.  44 Man

[gcrank1]

Six 'o one, half doz. 'o the other.
Either way you spend some money. Ever figure on selling it? Put more in it and you never get anywhere close out. Buy another and if it works good you keep it and play with it, but if you ever sell it you can maybe get close to your money out (if you buy right).
IF you never plan on selling that .45 then put more in it and have what you want, however, I bet there are a lot more loads, and lead bullet dia. to try before you give up. I bet there are some people here who would be glad to help you find it.
BTW, I recommend a cast lead bullet that fits the chamber throat, even if several 'thou. larger than barrel groove dia. (unless the barrel is larger than the cyl. throats). In that case you can have them reamed up for a lot cheaper than your orig. idea and end up with a working .45.
I think there are ways to get this gun satisfactory before bailing out on it.

[mrussel]

OK, thanks for the replies. I will go for another ruger in 44mag and not do the swap.  I do like the bisley gun and w/ the action & trigger job makes it a pleasure to shoot even w/ heavy loads. I've tried quite a few loads w/ H110, Tightgroup and HS6 in cast bullets from 265 to 300gr.  I went with the 45Colt after reading the Lindbaugh articles about the 45Colt myth.  

Tacklebury - I'm curious, what was the cost on the cyl & barrel set from the factory? Was it in 45Colt ?

 I just picked up a brand new super blackhawk at a gun show for 450. Cant wait to shoot it.  Do you hand load? Ive seen some published loads (not some yahoo on the internet telling you that you can load it up with a million grains and a cannon ball and out shoot a battle ship but real data in real reloading manuals) that has 45LC loads that are getting into 44magnum territory.

 One nice thing about not modifying the 45 and getting a 44mag is that you can still shoot 45lc. =) More guns is always better than less guns =) More guns in more calibers is better still. In fact I just bought the 44magnum and now Im thinking about getting a 45lc some time. Actually,I saw a Taurus Judge at the gun show that was very interesting. Ordinarily I dont like them. The idea of that short little barrel,especially with 410 seems sort of pointless,but this one had an 8" barrel on it. Ive heard of people loading up a longer cartridge to make sort of a 45 very long colt,using 9.3x73R cases. I wonder how the 45LC would do out of it with a longer case to get the bullet closer to the rifling. The only thing that stopped me from buying one was the cylinder. It looked so thin that it cant be very strong. The SBH on the other hand has some meat between the chambers. Its one seriously heavy duty gun.

 My main reason for the SBH is to have something heavier than a 1911 in case I run into a bear or something when its not practical to carry a rifle. I figure Ill unload the SBH,then if I have time unload the 1911,then if I still have time,put my head between my legs and kiss my ass goodbye.

[44 Man]

I agree with gcrank.  44 Man

[tacklebury]

I haven't gone higher than Linebaugh's article recommends and even with his maximum loads, I get only mild flattening of the primer.  I have fired reloaded brass 10 times using this and still no splits, so I think it's safe in MY New Model Blackhawk.  I'm personally am not into recoil though and shoot a lot more cowboy level loads and midrange Unique loads than anything these.  Still, it's a good article and has been echoed by numerous other testers:

http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm

I mainly have worked up his level loads to have for hunting dangerous game, ie. brown bears, where a lot of energy is a definite plus.  Also, these loads let me reach out a bit further, although at a slight loss to accuracy due to the increased recoil.  In the carbine length barrel, however, I like Reloader7, partially because of the fact that I can get a higher velocity with less recoil.  I just have to be cautions of one of these getting into my pistol loads.  They aren't high enough pressure to damage my NMB, but do belch fire due to the short barrel and the powder not having time to be completely burned.  I got the idea and starting load from:

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm

Specifically this section at the bottom:

There is a whole world of surprises waiting the reloader using the rifle powder ReL#7 in the 45 long Colt case for rifles. (Rifle powder not #7 pistol powder) With the 260 Keith I start with 25 grains and work up. I want anybody that wants to try it...to work up slowly so I’m not giving the top load..but the top velocity from the Winchester is 1800 to top end 2000 fps. And in the Browning 1892 action it will reach nearly 2200 fps or more and a SK of 82. Go slow with mag/pistol primers, and ReL#7 and because of it’s slow burn rate, it gives great velocities. H4227 is the other really good powder, but obviously not as slow as ReL#7.

[SmithAC]

Thanks for all the repiles!! 
I stopped by Alpha Precision this morning and met for the first time Jim Stroh.  He checked my gun and suggested taylor throating might help a good bit. I'm thinking i'll have him do it and kinda start over trying to get acceptable accuracy even thought the wait will be 6 months or so. SO I'm putting off buying a new gun (at least for a while) and going to shoot the 45 some more and try to get an acceptable load.
   
It was Linebaugh articles that pushed me to 45colt instead of 44mag years ago.  I tried some of near max H110 loads that Lindbaugh lists for rugers but only shoot a few at any range session. I'm gonna try Unique as well as it seems like a lot of folks use it.


 

[gcrank1]

Sounds like a good, solid course of action. Upon its return I think you will get it sorted out in short order and be very happy with your choice.
Let us know as things progress.

[mrussel]

I haven't gone higher than Linebaugh's article recommends and even with his maximum loads, I get only mild flattening of the primer.  I have fired reloaded brass 10 times using this and still no splits, so I think it's safe in MY New Model Blackhawk.  I'm personally am not into recoil though and shoot a lot more cowboy level loads and midrange Unique loads than anything these.  Still, it's a good article and has been echoed by numerous other testers:

 I dont have much experience reloading for revolvers,but Im told that there are few if any signs your overpressure until your way past proof pressures. That mild flattening of the primer could be the only warning you get that things are at a very dangerous level. (What also worries me is that mild is a very subjective thing. I might look at it and say "Theres flattening of the primer!", You might say its mild flattening and the 80 year old guy from teh reloading shop might go diving for cover at the range when he sees you about to shoot one of those loads at the range) Im not criticizing or anything,as only you know all the details,just voicing my concerns.

[SHOOTALL]

I use the loads listed in Hornady's book for colt 45 in Ruger and TC's most often. . They come close or equal the 44mag. (i have both) . If you get your gun shooting you will enjoy it. I seldom shoot the 44 any more.

[painted horse]

From every thing I've read, Hamilton Bowen is a nop notch pistolsmith, same with Jim Stroh (alpha precision) Do you know if Bowen did anything other than an action job?  Ruger 45 colts are well documented for tight cylinder throats, and barrel constrictions.  Taylor throating is one way to relieve the constriction at the barrel threads another way is firelapping.  Pros an cons about firelapping, I've had good results in 4 vaqueros, a Redhawk, and a bisley blackhawk (like the one you have) The cylinders on all the above were .447 to .449 with bores at .451.  So so accuracy, after boring the cyls to .4525 and fire lapping the bores I'm getting much improved accuracy, actually better than I can shoot.  Mic the cyls, and slug the bores, that would be the place to start IMO, if you don't want to bother Alpha precision can surely fix you up. Good luck.  The bisley blackhawk is a fine revolver, don't give up on it yet..

[blhof]

+1 on trying the 4227 either the H or the Imr. they're pretty equal now.  I've used them both in my 45 BH with great accuracy, using the 250gr cast flat nose bullet.

[gcrank1]

And 8.5gr. Unique with any lead bullet about 250gr. should be a dandy for all round fun and give you a baseline for performance/accuracy.

[SmithAC]

From every thing I've read, Hamilton Bowen is a nop notch pistolsmith, same with Jim Stroh (alpha precision) Do you know if Bowen did anything other than an action job?  Ruger 45 colts are well documented for tight cylinder throats, and barrel constrictions.  Taylor throating is one way to relieve the constriction at the barrel threads another way is firelapping.  Pros an cons about firelapping, I've had good results in 4 vaqueros, a Redhawk, and a bisley blackhawk (like the one you have) The cylinders on all the above were .447 to .449 with bores at .451.  So so accuracy, after boring the cyls to .4525 and fire lapping the bores I'm getting much improved accuracy, actually better than I can shoot.  Mic the cyls, and slug the bores, that would be the place to start IMO, if you don't want to bother Alpha precision can surely fix you up. Good luck.  The bisley blackhawk is a fine revolver, don't give up on it yet..

Yes Bowen did open the cyl throats and i did fire lap w/ beartooth bullets to open the barrel constrictions. I beleive the taylor throating will essentially free bore allowing better bullet alignment. Stroh will also also re-crown it.

[SmithAC]

again thanks for all the more replies, i dropped the gun off w/ Stroh last night and will have plenty of fodder loaded up to run through it when i get it back. I'll post results.  It may be a while.

[44 Man]

Most good gunsmiths can open the cylinders for you.  I had a 44 Mag SS Super once that had tight cylinder throats and my local 'smith fixed me right up.  Good luck with that gun, I'm sure it's worth it!  44 Man

[painted horse]

I'd be interested to hear about the results of the Taylor Throating. I've considered sending him one of mine to work his mojo on, but then if my results were still crappy I'd not have any excuses and would have to  accept the fact I'm just a lousy shot. Don't know if I'm ready for that...

[SmithAC]

I'd be interested to hear about the results of the Taylor Throating. I've considered sending him one of mine to work his mojo on, but then if my results were still crappy I'd not have any excuses and would have to  accept the fact I'm just a lousy shot. Don't know if I'm ready for that...

Yea, i hear ya about a lousy shot!  I got two other pistols that most days i can shoot acceptable at least for my standards, one is a FA 97 44special which just shoots great, way more accurate than i can hold and a TC 44mag which is the same way. In a way it's not fair to compare an off the shelf ruger to either of these guns.  Thing i like about the ruger is they seem simple and so rugged.

[painted horse]

I read somewhere that the best and easiest way to improve your shooting was to time your flinch and  your trigger jerk to coincide and cancel each other out.. smartest thing I ever read. I just haven't been able to   master that technique yet. Close....very close, but not quite. 

[mrussel]

I read somewhere that the best and easiest way to improve your shooting was to time your flinch and  your trigger jerk to coincide and cancel each other out.. smartest thing I ever read. I just haven't been able to   master that technique yet. Close....very close, but not quite. 

Or just train yourself not to flinch? Load a snap cap,spin the wheel.

[flatgate]

Be advised that there is no way/no how that Ruger will convert one of their guns from one calibre to another. Auxiliary cylinders, yes, but no barrel/cylinder replacements to a different bore size.

Sure, you can find a barrel and cylinder and have a GOOD Gunsmith install them but the Factory will be of no help.

I think you are on the right track in consulting with GOOD Gunsmiths.  It's hard to beat a .45 cal. revolver, especially one
that will handle the loads similar to what Linebaugh has published for years and years.

JMHO,

flatgate

[painted horse]

I read somewhere that the best and easiest way to improve your shooting was to time your flinch and  your trigger jerk to coincide and cancel each other out.. smartest thing I ever read. I just haven't been able to   master that technique yet. Close....very close, but not quite. 

Or just train yourself not to flinch? Load a snap cap,spin the wheel.

I was really just funnin ya....