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Author Topic: Scope base problems*bigger problems*  (Read 804 times)

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Offline Dinny

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Scope base problems*bigger problems*
« on: June 10, 2010, 05:15:07 PM »
Hello everyone,
  I recently noticed that my scope base on my 20ga ULSH was loose. I brought it back home from the range and pulled the scope off of it. I went to tighten the screws and realized they were already tight. :o So I attempted to loosen them and stripped the head of one and pulled the others out with no problems.  Today I ground down the head and pulled the base off and backed the screw out of the threads. I ran a different screw into the threads to clean them. Anything that was left in there was removed with a fine-tipped Q-tip. When I tried the other two screws and a new base, I learned that the forward-most two screws were not tightening things down, but the rear one would.  Did H&R give me screws that are too long? I have never had this problem before and thought they would only send screws of the appropriate length. Do I need to trim the screws to fit the base and holes?

While we're at it, does anyone know the exact specs of those screws, I have to replace them?


Thanks, Dinny
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Handi Family: 357 Max, 45 LC, 45-70, 300 BLK, 50 cal Huntsman, and 348 Win.

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day that my child may have peace"
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Offline wreckhog

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Re: Scope base problems
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2010, 05:24:44 PM »
There is something in the FAQ about the part number of better replacement screws. I don't get why the factory screws are so soft. Can this be saving them even 5 cents a screw?
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Offline Dinny

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Re: Scope base problems
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2010, 05:41:01 PM »
Quote from: wreckhog on June 10, 2010, 05:24:44 PM
There is something in the FAQ about the part number of better replacement screws. I don't get why the factory screws are so soft. Can this be saving them even 5 cents a screw?

If it's in there, I'll find it! Good fasteners are not that expensive when bought in bulk.

Found it! "Scope base screws are 6-48, you can replace them with T-10 torx head screws from Brownell's, part number 080-924-468"

Thanks, Dinny
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Handi Family: 357 Max, 45 LC, 45-70, 300 BLK, 50 cal Huntsman, and 348 Win.

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day that my child may have peace"
Thomas Paine

Offline trotterlg

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Re: Scope base problems
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2010, 05:52:44 PM »
They are 6-48 NS screws.  Find some and make sure they aren't too long to tighten down.  The USH doesn't have much metal to thread, so you may have to shorten the screws a little so they don't bottom out.  Larry
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Offline Dinny

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Re: Scope base problems
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2010, 05:54:13 PM »
Quote from: trotterlg on June 10, 2010, 05:52:44 PM
They are 6-48 NS screws.  Find some and make sure they aren't too long to tighten down.  The USH doesn't have much metal to thread, so you may have to shorten the screws a little so they don't bottom out.  Larry

Thanks! 
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Handi Family: 357 Max, 45 LC, 45-70, 300 BLK, 50 cal Huntsman, and 348 Win.

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day that my child may have peace"
Thomas Paine

Offline MSP Ret

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Re: Scope base problems
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2010, 05:56:17 PM »
Hi Dinny, being sure that scope rail screws don't bottom out before tightening down all the way is something that you should do to all guns with scope rails as soon as you get them. If the screws are a little long (they may just be a couple of thousandts too long) just touch them to a grinding wheel or use a stone or fine file. Tim has mentioned about torx head screws that are sold as replacement screws for Handi scope rails. Check with him. They are pretty cheap when sold in bulk and I have been meaning to get a few myself. Get the correct ones for the application, some have flat/square shoulders, IIRC the ones you need have a slightly tapered shoulder..<><....:)
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Offline Dinny

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Re: Scope base problems
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2010, 06:13:12 PM »
Andy,
  Thanks for the tips. I will pay attention when I'm ordering them or buying them in-store. It's alot cheaper when you buy the right ones the first time. Everytime I go to the hardware store it costs me alot more than I ever intended it to.  ::)  ;D

Thanks, Dinny
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Handi Family: 357 Max, 45 LC, 45-70, 300 BLK, 50 cal Huntsman, and 348 Win.

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day that my child may have peace"
Thomas Paine

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Scope base problems
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2010, 06:20:28 PM »
The most common problem that will make you think the screws are too long is the holes are filled with thread locker, make sure the bottom of the holes are clean and shiny, if it's dull, it's still got thread locker in it, I use an awl to dig it out, then run a bottom tap in and out to clean them. That's covered in the FAQs along with the T-10 torx head 6-48 screws that Brownell's sells to replace the cheezy H&R screws.  ;)

Tim
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Offline Dinny

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Re: Scope base problems*bigger problems*
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2010, 07:18:17 PM »
I cleaned the screw holes out as suggested. Two of them did have gunk in them from old loctite.  The screws are still not screwing down all the way. I tried my DNZ mount with it's screws and I can't tighten the screw enough to get the base tight to the receiver.  So I measured everything. The screw holes are 0.140" deep. The screws are 0.361" long. The screw height off the receiver when tight is 0.265" So I am getting a 0.096" difference. To me that doesn't seem like a whole lot. One thing I have noticed, is that when I screw new screws into the holes, the first two threads (farthest from the head) come back out shiny and slightly flattened. Looking at the threads inside the hole, the last few turns look smooth. I believe that something happened to the original screws I had in there. Maybe they were pulled by the massive recoil I was subjected to by firing those Rem Buckhammers in a lightweight slug gun. I would have known immediately if the original scope base was loose when I installed it.  This was the first time I shot the gun with a conventional scope on it. Previously I had a much lighter Bushnell Holosight on it.

Oh well, I guess this is a good reason to get the screw holes re-drilled to 8-40. Maybe I'll get a few extra holes drilled too.

Thanks, Dinny
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Handi Family: 357 Max, 45 LC, 45-70, 300 BLK, 50 cal Huntsman, and 348 Win.

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day that my child may have peace"
Thomas Paine

Offline gcrank1

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Re: Scope base problems*bigger problems*
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2010, 04:52:59 AM »
The Torx screws are ever so much better steel. Also, that torx tip often works to remove a stripped out allen head. Use the right size to drive into the rounded off hole and the edges get the bite.
For trimming tiny screws to length, use something with a hole just big enough for the screw to slip through and extend out the off side and with a long enough 'handle' for you to grasp. Use a piece of leather over the head to put thumb pressure on and hit the fine grinder wheel carefully.
Next time at your dentist ask if he/she has any dental picks they need to dispose of, they are handy for gun work too.
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Offline Dinny

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Re: Scope base problems*bigger problems*
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2010, 07:13:54 AM »
Quote from: gcrank1 on June 12, 2010, 04:52:59 AM
The Torx screws are ever so much better steel. Also, that torx tip often works to remove a stripped out allen head. Use the right size to drive into the rounded off hole and the edges get the bite.
For trimming tiny screws to length, use something with a hole just big enough for the screw to slip through and extend out the off side and with a long enough 'handle' for you to grasp. Use a piece of leather over the head to put thumb pressure on and hit the fine grinder wheel carefully.
Next time at your dentist ask if he/she has any dental picks they need to dispose of, they are handy for gun work too.


I learned that a while ago, good tip. ;)

Thanks, Dinny
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Handi Family: 357 Max, 45 LC, 45-70, 300 BLK, 50 cal Huntsman, and 348 Win.

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day that my child may have peace"
Thomas Paine

Offline Bill3006

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Re: Scope base problems*bigger problems*
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2010, 07:49:31 AM »
Another way to trim a screw is to screw on a nut and then file or grind off what extends past the nut. When you remove the nut, it cleans up the threads.
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Offline Dinny

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Re: Scope base problems*bigger problems*
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2010, 08:05:57 AM »
Quote from: Bill3006 on June 12, 2010, 07:49:31 AM
Another way to trim a screw is to screw on a nut and then file or grind off what extends past the nut. When you remove the nut, it cleans up the threads.

Another good tip that my Dad taught me years ago. There's just some things that don't change with time.

Thanks, Dinny
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Handi Family: 357 Max, 45 LC, 45-70, 300 BLK, 50 cal Huntsman, and 348 Win.

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day that my child may have peace"
Thomas Paine

Offline gcrank1

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Re: Scope base problems*bigger problems*
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2010, 08:21:20 AM »
Now where did I put that 6X48 nut?
Its a great idea if you have one, but you still have the problem of hanging onto the tiny screw while grinding, and just about the time you are close it grabs and is gone into the cosmos (oh, how would I know.....), often to never be seen again, even if held in pliers or vise-grips.
Best of both worlds, put it in the 'tool' I described and put on a nut. Sometime take an old hacksaw blade, duct tape over the teeth for a handle and stick a small screw through one of the holes and try it out. I think you will like it.
PS: Dont forget the 'thumb pad'.
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"Halt while I adjust my accoutrements!"
      ><   ->
We are only temporary caretakers of the past heading toward an uncertain future
22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
357Mag Schuetzen Special
45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Scope base problems*bigger problems*
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2010, 08:42:27 AM »
Brownell's makes a jig specifically for shortening 6-40, 6-48 and 8-40 screws, their part number 080-574-001 for $9, but if you have the tap, you can make you own from a piece of scrap steel, basically a big nut with a handle that's hardened, I've been using one for a while, it's pretty handy. The actual tool is shown in the box of screws in the pic. I use a dremel fiber cutoff tool for cutting and dressing the screw.

Tim

http://www.brownells.com/1/1/9442-screw-checker-shortening-jig-brownells.html
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