My first NEF Handi Rifle in .223 Rem and a 45/70 question

[bunkysdad]

I have acquired my first Handi Rifle and will be going to the range this weekend for my first experience with one of these. My only prior experience with H&R guns has been with 12 ga shotguns. I have been involved primarily with milsurps for the last couple of years, but when my friend at work told me he wanted to get rid of this .223 I jumped on the chance. I have here a different model than I seem to be able to find info and pics of here on the forum. It is a medium heavy 22" barrel (standard?) without sights, and the front swivel stud is on the lower barrel instead of the wooden hand guard. I want to know so much about these rifles, and have already found a number of answers just by reading the FAQ's and basics 101 sticky. Quickdtoo (Tim), thank you for all your wisdom, you seem to have a large number of my answers in your many posts. I want to take pictures and then I can post them, but thought I would just ask about the sling stud location. The gun is stamped SB2 .223 Rem, but on the right side there is no "warning" stamped on the barrel like the new ones I see. Being a big fan of Ruger firearms, I equate this to meaning an older model, but I don't know if these rifles have been around more than about 20 years? If anyone can give me info on this gun without the posting of pics, I would be grateful. It is a basic hardwood stock model, and I gotta tell you, it was love at first sight! Also I was wondering if they have ever chambered a barrel for the Russian rounds, 7.62x39 or 7.62x54r? If not, has anyone here ever had one chambered for either of these 2 rounds? I was just wondering how they would shoot with the surplus ammo that is available. I know that surplus ammo is corrosive, so it would be important to keep the guns clean, but then that is best anyway, right? I can't wait to reach my goal of acquiring a 45/70 so that I can handload and shoot cast bullets, and was also wondering if anyone ever shoots 45/70 loaded with black powder or substitutes in their 45/70 or Buffalo Classics? I am afraid that this H&R bug is gonna have big teeth. I love it.

[Kal52]

check the serial Number on the frame and see the FAQ that will tell you when it was made.
they did make the 7.62 x39 years ago I think but it has been discontinued, may check the classifieds or put out a wtb there as well.
Good luck, they are very addicting.

Dave

[bigvarmnt]

Please post a pic anyway, it's not hard to do. I'd like to see it.
You will need to be able to do it in the future

[quickdtoo]

Pic posting help can be found in the FAQs and it's stickied in all classified forums as well. As Dave said, the 7.62x39 was factory available at one time but was discontinued in 2006 due to too many owners complaining of misfiring milsurp ammo, the hard recessed primers just don't work in a factory Handi, some owners made work around modifications, but it was doomed as far as H&R was concerned. It's a shame because sporting ammo works fine as well as handloaded cast bullets and it's a real popular chambering, both as it is and as a rechamber to .303 brit or 7.62x54R,  just take a look at the want to buy classifieds.

You can confirm if your .223 is on an SB2 frame by comparing it with the pics in the FAQs, SB1s look different and are made difference. You can also call H&R and ask what barrels can be fitted, it may not be eligible for many rifle barrels depending on when it was made even if it's an SB2, that's shown in the built year info in the FAQs. Sounds like someone added an aftermarket swivel stud if it's on the barrel. H&Rs have been made since the late 1800's, modern H&Rs since 1987.

Tim

[petemi]

Tim pretty well got ya covered on the .223 questions.  Yes, a few folks do shoot .45-70s with black powder subs.  Ask Stimpylou32 about it if he doesn't show up on this thread.  I believe he could fill you in on it.  He's a regular on the H&R Muzzeloader forum.

Pete

[quickdtoo]

Here's Junior Doughty's article on shooting BP in his 45-70 Handi, it's in the FAQs and Help along with a LOT of other good stuff. 

Tim

http://www.castbullet.com/shooting/1871.htm

[bunkysdad]

Thank you for the tips guys. Tim that is a real good read on the 45/70 BP article. I will spend a lot of time in the FAQ links and then post any further questions that arise. I took a couple of pictures, but they kind of stink, as the lighting was no good. It was too close to dark and the flash was too reflective, but here you can see the sling swivel studs, and I think you may be right about them being aftermarket. I like the look of the barrel stud just fine as long as it doesn't mess with barrel harmonics and accuracy.Thankfully tomorrow is Saturday so I plan to get much better pictures. I have a Nikon 3x9 BDC scope to put on it. Gonna boresight it and sight it in this weekend and see what it will do.

[bigvarmnt]

Thanks for the pics. What is the serial # prefix letters? What ammo are you starting with? Let us know how it shoots.

Don't overclean it. It may shoot better a little dirty. Good Luck!

[Dances with Geoducks]

 I own one Handi, in 45-70, a limited edition full stock version.

Ive shoot BP, pyro GS, and smokeless though it.

Pyro GS is a waste of time. I could not get more than 100fps out of it. Holy Black did much better.
It forever stains the cases, so use ones you dont matter if they darken.

I get pin point accuracy from smokeless, so I dont do BP any more.

[bunkysdad]

Thanks for the pics. What is the serial # prefix letters? What ammo are you starting with? Let us know how it shoots.

Don't overclean it. It may shoot better a little dirty. Good Luck!

The prefix is NJ, which looks to me like it is a 1995? I have 100 rounds of 55 gr PMC fmj that I thought I would start out with. Some leftover ammo from a recent outing with a Bushmaster M4. I may try a box of Black Hills reman 55 gr sp in the 50 rd blue box. My local ammo store has them for 26.00 and my favorite range has a no fmj rule. If I shoot the PMC then I have to go to my alternate range.

[bunkysdad]

 Oh by the way, the above full stock rifle looks nice, real nice.

[necchi]

 It's just me, but I'd pull that barrel mounted swivel, and get an Uncle Mikes to mount IN the forearm.

 It might be ok shootin off the bench with no sling, but I'm guessing that the added weight of a sling attached will/could change the barrel whip or harmonics to open the groups.
 Not all, but many of these handi's benefit from from some kind of forearm bedding or float (found in the faq's) to really squeeze the best accuracy from them. Hanging something off the barrel ahead of the forearm after that work could be a detriment.

OR, it could be just what the barrel needs,    The only way to know is to experiment.

[bunkysdad]

Yes necchi, that is kind of what I thought too. I'll try it out tomorrow as I didn't make it to the range today. Then I can see if the stud should be removed. If it affects accuracy it has to go.

[bunkysdad]

well I didn't get to the range today after all. A friend at church wants to go to the range this week after work and asked me to go, so I postponed my Sunday trip to someday this week. I did however get the Nikon scope mounted and bore sighted and ready to go. I think I am gonna like shooting .223 from a single shot, and it will be perfect for reloading. I do have a question about the stock. I looked up the handi rifle in a 1996 Shooters Bible and it showed the Handi Rifle with a rubber butt pad like most of them, but mine has a hard plastic butt pad. Were they made with hard pads in 1996? Just curious, I realize tha anything could have happened to it during it's 15 year life, and the barrel does not have the serial number stamped on the lower like the FAQ states it should have. Maybe it has been changed or maybe they didn't stamp them back then?

[quickdtoo]

They only put the last 3 or 4 digits of the serial number on the left side the underlug of barrels, usually electro engraved, sometimes they miss them tho, I have over 40 and have two that aren't marked at all. Lots of Pardner shotguns had hard plastics butt plates, but other firearms did also over the years, the stock could have been swapped out, since 1987 all of their stocks fit all of their frames with the exception of some forends on shotgun barrels, many before that also be swapped.

Tim

[Dances with Geoducks]

  Yes, a few folks do shoot .45-70s with black powder subs. 

and they are butt boring low power loads. Soon as I switched to holy black, the smile on me chops came back

[bikerbeans]

Hi,

I loaded a few dozen 45/70 rounds wth Blackhorn 209 (BP sub) using 520 grain postells.  Ignition was fine and didn't foul the bore or the brass but the accuracy was nothing to get excited about.  I only one weight bullet with 6 different powder charges so another combination might shoot just fine.  The BH 209 can be loaded like smokeless powder including with a air gap in the cartridge and it does give a little cloud of smoke when you shoot.  Costs alot more than BP to shoot.  I didn't chrono the loads so not sure about the velocity of the loads.  Western Powder has published data on the cartridge loads but I haven't read where anybody has verified the speed of the bullets.

BB

[tacklebury]

I have loaded a couple sets using Jim Shockey's extra gold and had pretty good luck.  For the 325gr FTX, I got only a small vertical drop in elevation with the change and with the 350gr RNFP lead bullets, groups opened up a bit, but I haven't been back out to check since I corrected the OAL.  The first set when they opened up I noticed that I was about 1/32nd of an inch into the rifling.  I have re-configured all of them and crimped them slightly ahead of the actual groove to facilitate this.  I think I'm going to do a throat ream on my BC 45-70 per the faq once time and money allow.