Powder Measure Question

[stevinator]

I have a traditions flask and powder measure,last night I checked it with pyrodex rs.When I put around 100 grains in the measure and check it on my reloading scale it is actually 70-71 grains.Just curious if there will be differences like that with different powders in these measures.It's not a problem as long as I know I can just mark a measure so I know what it throws.If I pull the rod all the way back and fill it ,it is still only 88- 90 grains.So I guess it wouldn't have been way overloaded,that marking was at 120.

[DennyRoark]

Steve, black and subs are measured by volume, not weight.  Also, 120gr of loose is equivilant to 150gr of pellets.  Don't exceed the 120gr volume and you'll be fine.  Some do load by weight as volume weight can vary a couple of grains.  If you want to weigh, weigh 10 or 20 volume charges and average.  Don't ever use 120gr by weight, your chamber pressure wil surely be excessive!  Hope this makes sense.

[necchi]

Yes sir Denny is correct, it's measured by volume not weight, and his advise is sound,

Different manufactures of volume measures WILL vary. I have several, but use just one I have learned to trust for load development,,,then set all other measures by the volume tossed by that one.

Once you find a favored volume load with your measure, it's easy to make one out of antler or bone by just drilling a hole in it deep enough to hold that volume..

[bubba.50]

i got this info from www.bpcrshooter.com some time ago. i don't remember the brand but they used a muzzleloader type adjustable powder measure. with measure set on 10gr blackhorn weighed 7.1gr, 3f 777=8.1 2f 777=7.6, goex pinnacle 3f=8.0, goexpinnacle 2f=7.5, pyrodex p=7.5 pyrodex r/s select=7.2. as stated: all were measured using a muzzleloader measure set on 10gr. for what it's worth and good luck, bubba.

[stevinator]

Bubba I think that's the deal with 10 being equal to 7 because at the 100 mark on this it throws about 70-72 when I weigh it on my scale and at 120 it is throwing about 84-87 so I must be losing 3 grns about every 10 on this measure.I'll mark where it throws a certain charge I want then that has been checked with the scale.Might be like trap reloaders, alot of the bushings throw less most of the time so maybe a safety factor for those who push the envelope. I figured I would start with about 70 or less starting out anyway if we ever get any good weather here.

[bubba.50]

simply put-subs just have less weight for the space they take up. kinda like weighin' a cubic foot of feathers against a cubic foot of lead. volume is the key word here not weight. good luck and happy new year neighbor, bubba.

[necchi]

It's all a mess really, it has to do with 3-400 years and different country's

The old day's powder was measured by the dram. A dram is Apothecaries measure where 1 pound has 5,760 grains and 8 drams to the ounce.
Today we use Avoirdupois measure with 7,000 grains to the pound and 16 drams to the ounce.
Powder was brought over in kegs and casks on the boat, and those didn't have a weight,,they were just full. Everything was fine for the first 150-200 years with dram measure, then Colt came along and started using grains
So what weighs more? A pound of Gold or, a pound of Feathers?

Put away the scale,,take a double look at your powder jugs and see it reads 100 grains by volume of 2f equivilant. Just use yer volume measure, and consider the markings a simple scale of position for the plunger setting and not an indication of weight. It's a science thing that ain't really science at all, it let's you put in the same amount each time and/or let's ya adjust to a different setting.




oh, a pound of feathers will tip the scale on a pound of gold!.


bubba types faster than me! his post landed whilst i was ritin.

[bubba.50]

what necchi said. i mighta got the drop on typin' but, he 'splains better. good luck neighbor and don't blow yerself up . yeh, i know, my kids tell me all the time how corny i am. anyway, enjoy your gun when you get it all figgered out and let us know how it goes. happy new year neighbor, bubba.

[coyotejoe]

I thought this was all understood when Pyrodex first came out 40 years ago, "load by volume measure, not by weight!"  The measures were designed to throw an approximate weight of black powder and they are reasonably close to the designated weight with real black powder. The substitutes are intended to produce approximately the same velocity and pressure as black powder for the same volume measure but being less dense that volume measure will weigh less on a scale. So trust your powder measure, set it to the desired volume and forget what the scale reads. It's not the measure that is wrong, it's that dang new fangled powder!

[stevinator]

Ok I think I will use the 70 mark in the actual measure and start with that.The manual says start with 50-75 and use 100 as a max with this powder,where I got screwed up was trying to be careful and weigh it like my hogdon clays because it said grains.Like you guys said I see now the Pyrodex rs bottle  says load to equivalent volume.Boy at the 120 mark it put out actually 90 grains,and I thought that would still be under max.I might have got a big surprise. You guys are all a great help.In fact I loaded up some charges at about 100 on the measure which  was 70 grains weighed to try if the weather ever got better.I will reduce them to 70 on the measure now because those would be about max already and  I'm not starting with that.

[Glanceblamm]

I believe that I started with 50gr of black cause the old timers were telling me that all those flames chasing that ball weren't going to do any good at all

Once familure with the rifle, I fired six five shot groups off the bench starting with 50gr & ending with 100gr. It was at the 80gr mark that the groups were at the tightest and I had found my hunting load.