Author Topic: Smith and Wesson 19-3  (Read 2059 times)

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Offline pakrat846

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Smith and Wesson 19-3
« on: October 30, 2009, 01:51:08 PM »
 ???   Is a smith 19-3 double action or single?  The one I have will fired and rotate when the trigger is pulled, but if I pull back the hammer the cylinder rotates but the trigger does not stay in the cocked position.. Thanks

Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Smith and Wesson 19-3
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2009, 03:29:12 PM »
  Your 19 is a double action revolver, it sounds to me like someone botched a trigger job!!  Get it repaired ASAP!!

  DM

Offline JoeG52

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Re: Smith and Wesson 19-3
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2009, 09:55:11 AM »
If it was a law enforcement gun it could have been converted to DA only.

Offline Dee

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Re: Smith and Wesson 19-3
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2009, 05:11:06 PM »
If it was a law enforcement gun it could have been converted to DA only.


Never heard that one before, and I owned about 6 or 8 of em, and I WAS L.E. and an instructor at that, for 20 years. Somebody screwed a trigger job. Get it fixed like Drilling Man said. Those are damn nice handguns, and I wish I had kept all of mine.
Well, I actually wore the actions out on two of'em, so I don't want those two. ;D
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Offline StrawHat

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Re: Smith and Wesson 19-3
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2009, 01:16:07 AM »
Well, I actually wore the actions out on two of'em, so I don't want those two. ;D

It used to be fairly easy to rebuild them, now that I am out of LE I am not sure how easy it would be to get parts.
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Offline Dee

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Re: Smith and Wesson 19-3
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2009, 02:00:15 AM »
Well, I actually wore the actions out on two of'em, so I don't want those two. ;D

It used to be fairly easy to rebuild them, now that I am out of LE I am not sure how easy it would be to get parts.

You could put a new cylinder hand in usually the first time, and you were back in time. The next time new cylinder hand, AND cylinder stop. After that more trouble as the notches in the cylinder inself were starting to get wallowed out, and your chamber and cone alignment started gettin more difficult. I traded then.
I might add, that these rebuilds were after quite literally thousands and thousands of rounds. I can remember many times shooting over 1 thousand rounds a day, and in instructer schools which sometimes lasted 2 weeks seeing instructers put tape on their trigger fingers as the blisters had torn off.
After 20 years of L.E., and 35 years total of carrying, I have carried about everything there is to carry, and I am right back where I started. A Smith Model 60 in 357 mag. Dependable, concealable, and plenty of power.
Pak has a treasure, he should get it fixed and keep it. Or give it to me. ;D
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Offline drdougrx

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Re: Smith and Wesson 19-3
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2009, 03:41:27 PM »
Hey Dee...is your 60 a 2" or a 3"??
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Offline Dee

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Re: Smith and Wesson 19-3
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2009, 01:51:09 AM »
It's a two" and after I did an action job, I equipped it old school. It has a pair of Ajax ivories, and a Tyler T-grip (polished aluminum). It is slick, nothing to snag, or rub if exposed to skin, and cuts down even more on size.

It took me over 20 years to learn that less is more many times, and it is about personal defense, not sustained firefights.

I look sometimes at my Great Grandmothers' Iver Johnson 38S&W 5 shot, and realize that these "very practical people" KNEW, what was needed and carried it. Technology is better, but needs have only changed in our minds for the most part. JMO
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Offline kshock

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Re: Smith and Wesson 19-3
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2009, 03:41:17 AM »
I have two Smith & Wesson K frames that have been altered to fire double action only. Both are custom PPC guns and this conversion is common in competition guns. Some police departments also had their guns altered to double action only. I think NYPD always did that. If everything else works right, my quess is that your gun has been altered by someone for competetion or it may have been a police gun that was altered. Most gunsmiths could look at one and easily tell if it has been altered. They can also convert it back but you would have to replace some parts to do that.

Offline Dee

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Re: Smith and Wesson 19-3
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2009, 05:35:00 AM »
I have not only seen many alterations for double action only in police revolvers, I have performed the alteration, and it did not involve ALTERING THE ACTION. It involved smoothing the action, and simply REMOVING the hammer spur.
ANY "CREDIBLE" POLICE ARMORER "KNOWS" THAT ALTERING THE ACTION NOT ONLY "VOIDS THE WARRANTY" BUT OPENS UP A "HUGE CAN OF LEGAL WORMS" IF THAT REVOLVER IS USED IN A POLICE SHOOTING INCIDENT. GET SOMEONE LIKE ATLLAW TO COMMENT ON SUCH A PROCEDURE AND WHAT RAMIFICATIONS IT WILL HAVE IN A COURT ROOM.
No way would I count on that 19-3 being safe without having the sear work checked by someone that knows that action inside and out.
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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Smith and Wesson 19-3
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2009, 06:55:27 AM »
GET SOMEONE LIKE ATLLAW TO COMMENT ON SUCH A PROCEDURE AND WHAT RAMIFICATIONS IT WILL HAVE IN A COURT ROOM

From a lay person's and personal point of view, I agree with what Dee has said about the revolver in question.  I've not heard of an agency having revolvers modified to fire DA only but that is not to say I don't believe that some agencies have done that.

I will say that, from a civil suit/criminal charge standpoint, I can think of nothing good for the owner/user of the firearm in question that could come from using it "as is."   And that is in any social situation; again that I can think of.   I can, however, think of a lot of ways to make doing so look very bad for the owner/user.   :(

If it were me I would have it brought back to original specs by a factory authorized gunsmith.  But then what do I know...  It ain't me... ain't my gun...   :-\   I don't tell people what to do unless I'm getting paid for it!   ;) ;D
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Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Smith and Wesson 19-3
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2009, 07:25:07 AM »
I hate to chime in on this but I do remember somecourt case in one of the big cities where a police officer set the hammer before shooting a "suspect" and was said he committed pre meditated murder by "community activists"  The law suit was large and I think I remember some agency removing the single action notch from the hammers so the gun would only go double.
But I do not know what model they were carring.  But I want to say it was in the north mid west.  Detroit?

Offline gunblade

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Re: Smith and Wesson 19-3
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2009, 12:49:03 PM »
Converting a S&W to DAO is easy.  You simply file away the single action cocking notch on the hammer so that the trigger will not set up on the hammer when it is cocked in the SA mode.  The double action sear, which is a seperate piece installed in the front face of the hammer, is not affected.  When the trigger is pulled in double action mode, the trigger pushes up on the DA sear and causes the hammer to rise and fall as the hamer slips off the trigger, firing the gun.  Removing the single action notch from the hammer makes cocking the gun in SA mode impossible, and is the proper and safe way to truly convert the revolver to DAO...removing the hammer spur alone doesn't do it.   Probably best attempted by someone familar with the inner workings of Smith & Wesson revolvers.   Where people make their mistakes with S&W revolvers is in cutting coils off rebound slide springs, loosening mainspring tension, etc. to get a lighter trigger pull.   

Offline Dee

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Re: Smith and Wesson 19-3
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2009, 12:53:58 PM »
I agree gunblade, it is an easy do, but it is unknown if that is what was done. This gun was bought used. AND! If the weapon is used in a shooting incident, and the DOA job wasn't performed at the Manufacturer or a Authorized smith, you can have some serious court repercussions.
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Offline gunblade

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Re: Smith and Wesson 19-3
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2009, 02:46:08 PM »
Yeah, best to get it checked out by a pro....maybe send it to the factory for a re-hab. 

Offline weakhand luke

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Re: Smith and Wesson 19-3
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2009, 02:02:35 PM »
I'm a little surprised that the issue of the dreaded "cracked forcing cone" and flame cutting wasn't mentioned in a discussion of model 19's.  Might be a good thing for the OP to look for and understand before he puts too much effort into any repairs.

Offline StrawHat

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Re: Smith and Wesson 19-3
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2009, 07:10:46 AM »
I'm a little surprised that the issue of the dreaded "cracked forcing cone" and flame cutting wasn't mentioned in a discussion of model 19's.  Might be a good thing for the OP to look for and understand before he puts too much effort into any repairs.

Probably because the repair for what is wrong is fairly easy and the forcing cone is  a problem only if you feed it a steady diet of 125 grain bullets at velocities approaching the old Super Vel ammo.  I have forty years of personal experience and had 15 years of departmental experience (as a Training Officer) with M19 and never saw one instance of flame cutting or forcing cone damage.
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Offline Dee

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Re: Smith and Wesson 19-3
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2009, 07:45:50 AM »
I'm a little surprised that the issue of the dreaded "cracked forcing cone" and flame cutting wasn't mentioned in a discussion of model 19's.  Might be a good thing for the OP to look for and understand before he puts too much effort into any repairs.

Probably because the repair for what is wrong is fairly easy and the forcing cone is  a problem only if you feed it a steady diet of 125 grain bullets at velocities approaching the old Super Vel ammo.  I have forty years of personal experience and had 15 years of departmental experience (as a Training Officer) with M19 and never saw one instance of flame cutting or forcing cone damage.

Same here StrawHat. I wore the cylinder hands out on two, replaced them, and then the cylinder stops notches on the cylinders eventually before trading them off. I fired thousands of rounds thru them, in both practice, fun, and demos with never a hitch.  I too was an instructor in L.E. for 17 years and never once saw that happen, and never met anyone that had.
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Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Smith and Wesson 19-3
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2009, 08:20:40 AM »
  I'll third that...

  I've fired my first M-19 MANY thousands of rounds before it needed a "minor" tuneup, and there never was any forceing cone/top strap problems at all.  I'm still shooting the second one i bought in the 70's and it's needed nothing to this day...

  DM

Offline Dee

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Re: Smith and Wesson 19-3
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2009, 08:29:37 AM »
There ya go Drilling Man. Gun rag writers have sold a many a gun to a many a guy that didn't need that particular gun, and sometimes they come up with either a mythical, or very rare occurrence to fill their portion of the magazine. Unfortunately there are those the read these things and believe the writer to be an expert when many times, all he is, is a shooter with a degree in Journalism, and a job that wants columns of words in a magazine designed to make money, for the publisher in both subscriptions, and advertisements sold in it.
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Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Smith and Wesson 19-3
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2009, 08:44:56 AM »
  The M-19 has always been one of my fav revolvers, so it's the one i shot the most.  I'm pretty sure if the average one would have had problems, mine would have too.  After many thousands of rounds, i sent my first one to be turned into a 44 spl., and i still have it.  While that was happening, i bought a second one, and it's got a LOT of miles on it too, and again, it's been trouble free...

  NOW, do you want to hear about the Ruger that broke on me?  Or the Ruger that left the factory with short chambers?  It wouldn't even accept 38spl's...  Everyone knows Ruger's "never" break and are absolutely "golden"...  lol

  DM

Offline Dee

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Re: Smith and Wesson 19-3
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2009, 08:49:17 AM »
I sent a Model 77 stainless in 308 back to Ruger. It was new in the box when I bought it, and shot 13 inches to the left at TWENTY FIVE YARDS! :o I tried a set of custom rings they sent me and 3 scopes. I sent the rifle back to Ruger, it was back in less than 2 weeks, and was one of the most accurate rifles I have ever owned.
BUT! I still ain't seen no gas cuttin in Model 19 Smiths. ;)
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Smith and Wesson 19-3
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2009, 10:41:05 AM »
I've seen flame cutting but it stops after a bit. Heck the worse flame cutting I've seen on a revolver was on my S&W 17 with 8-3/8" barrel but then who knows how many rounds it took to get it that way. There too it got to a point and stopped. I just don't see it as a big deal at all.


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Offline weakhand luke

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Re: Smith and Wesson 19-3
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2009, 07:30:56 AM »
Wow!  Thanks for setting me straight on all that!  Great news, too, because I have a -3 blue and a -5 nickel that I have been babying since I heard that SW has no more replacement barrels of any length for the 19 (probably not true?).

I wish the 19 would never have been discontinued and replaced with the more robust L-Frames.  It always seemed to be the perfectly proportioned revolver.

Offline StrawHat

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Re: Smith and Wesson 19-3
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2009, 01:44:42 AM »
since I heard that SW has no more replacement barrels of any length for the 19 (probably not true?).

I wish the 19 would never have been discontinued and replaced with the more robust L-Frames.  It always seemed to be the perfectly proportioned revolver.

Nope, it is true, they do not have any more barrels for the M19.  But they are available on many forums.

As for the M19 balance and etc, yes, one of the best.  I had two L frames for competition (4" and 6") but for carry I used a M19.  Now I have gone to a 45 ACP N frame and am weeding out my 357s.
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Offline madcratebuilder

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Re: Smith and Wesson 19-3
« Reply #25 on: December 25, 2009, 04:24:46 AM »
I'm a little surprised that the issue of the dreaded "cracked forcing cone" and flame cutting wasn't mentioned in a discussion of model 19's.  Might be a good thing for the OP to look for and understand before he puts too much effort into any repairs.

The "cracked forcing cone" has been blown way out of proportion by the internet.  I've owned a few M19's and handled many others and other than some flame cutting they have all been fine.  Flame cutting looks worse than it really is, it well go so far and stop.  Some of the older Smiths had the top strap above the forcing cone ball milled so no flame cutting would show.  There's a name for that cut but I can't bring it up right now.

The DA only could be ordered from S&W and it is not all that uncommon.  I see them pretty often on Gunbroker.  Some DA only are from bubba trigger jobs I'm sure, I've seen that to.