Handi Rifle .45 70 scope problems

[brentashley2000]

I have a .45 70 Handi Rifle with an alpen apex 3.5 x 10 x50 scope. I killed three deer last year with this setup. Last Sat. I missed a deer at 140 yards. I took it to the local gun shop and he placed it in the vise with the bore sight and said that it was off 4 inches to the right and 8 inches low. He said the Alpen Apex was not built to withstand the recoil because of the plastic internals. He recommended the Nikon for approx. $160(forget the model #). What do you guys think? The gun was not dropped or scope bumped since it was last shot. Any advice or opinions? Thanks in advance. Brent.

[wreckhog]

I think that I have never heard of that scope and your gunsmith is real proud of his boresighting kung fu.

[brentashley2000]

Yeah..he seemed like he might know it all if you asked. By the way, the scope is on a tally base.

[woodchukhntr]

I would take the gun to a range and shoot it to see if it has lost it's zero.  Is it possible that the miss was your fault (loose nut behind the trigger syndrome)?  Bore sighting is not always accurate, but I have found that it will usually put me on paper at 50 yd. and I can take it from there.  Once I am sighted-in, I am often amazed how far off the bore sighter is when I check it.

[mannyrock]

  For goodness sakes, check the zero of your scope on a rifle range, not with a bore-sighter.   :-)

[quickdtoo]

Before you do any range work, check the scope mounts, base and ring screws, that's the number one cause of loss of accuracy on a previously dependably accurate rifle, it's also the easiest to fix, a little Loctite on the base screws is essential, see the FAQs. 

Tim

[billy_56081]

Did you fire the gun and check zero before the season this year? I do quite a bit of shooting and my first responce to a miss is I must have screwed up. After that I will check the zero of my rifle and usually it's me not the gun. Have you ever sighted this gun or do you rely on bore sighting?

Bore sighting is supposed to get the rifle CLOSE after that you need to fire it from a bench and make the final ajustments.

[kwells2006]

most bore sights are good for what? 6" @ 25yds?

[dpe.ahoy]

If you check everything and all is tight, then try at the range.  That's a pretty big scope to put on a 45-70, recoil has more effect on a heavier scope than a lighter one.  More weight/mass is harder to get moving and more likely to move in the rings or just give up.  That 50mm bell has to be adding some weight to the scope.  Just a thought.  DP

[peternap]

most bore sights are good for what? 6" @ 25yds?

If that!

I;m always happy if it's on the paper at 25 yards after boresighting.
One thing a boresighter i good for i checking thi type of problem.
AFTER sighting in, put the borescope on and record the grid it's on. If you experience accuracy problems later, check it. If it's on a new grid, you could have a floating zero.

[kwells2006]

here's a question... will a red dot work on a 45-70 very well?

[Yak Angler]

Welcome aboard brentashley2000

I see this is one of your first posts, you have found a fantastic forum with lots of experienced members. I am a new member here myself and If you follow the advice from the FAQ's you will see better results from your rifle without having to drop alot of cash to do the upgrades.

That being said I am very fanatical about my scopes and how i have them mounted. From the sounds of it you might not have followed the proper sequence to get a professional quality scope mount on your rifle. As most everyone who have replied mentioned boresighting will rarely ever be dead on with your POI at 100 yards and is used to just get the scope on paper with final adjustsment made while shooting the ammo you plan to use while hunting.

The procedure i use to mount all my scopes is as follows:

1. remove the factory installed weaver mount from the barrel. chamfer all mounting holes on the weaver mount and the barrel , this can be done easily with a dremel tool and cone shaped grinding bit, very little material needs to be removed so go easy. i believe similar techniques are shown in the FAQ's section of this board.
2. apply a small amount of loctite to the threads of all mounting bolts and install them tight. I don't use a torque wrench for this,  im sure there must be a spec somewhere but once you get a feel for it you will get to know how tight you can go before you strip the allen head.
3. Install your scope rings to the mount. Use the lowest height rings you can get away with and make sure they are tight to the mount. I prefer all steel rings as the threads are able to withstand being torqued down tighter then the aluminum rings that i have used before and they provide better clamping power to the scope itself.
4. You now need a scope ring alingment & lapping tool. I am fortunate as a friend of mine who is a parts designer for a major automotive Tier1 parts supplier made me a set out of 1" cold rolled steel rod, but you can buy sets for around $ 50.00 from Midway im sure. when you install the alignment tools in the rings they should be dead in alignment with one another. This is very difficult to explain in words but if you google the procedure im  sure you can find photo's of it,  if someone hasn't already posted it in the FAQ's. Lapping the rings is the next step and consists of running a 1 inch steel rod coated in a light abbrasive compound back and fourth through the scope rings with the scope rings tightened to maintain a light pressure on the steel rod. This removes any minor irregularity in the rings so they achieve better clamping pressure/distribution on the scope tube to help prevent lost zero's from recoil/handling of the rifle.
5. Centre the cross hairs on the scope prior to mounting it. read the procedure in the FAQ'S which uses a mirror. this is the easiest and fastest method i have found.
6. Make sure the cross hairs are level. this is best done with the gun mounted in a vise so the receiver is level and will make getting the cross hairs perfect much easier.
7. Make sure when doing the final tightning of the scope ring bolts they are snugged down with even pressure. i use an x pattern similar to torquing down a rim onto a car when tightning the bolts.
8. Now's the time for your boresighter i prefer the laser type but they all work basically the same. What's really important at this stage is the cross hairs should be in close alignment with the boresighter. If they arn't you will need to shim the rings accordingly. and most scopes will include instructions on this

When all of those steps above work out well , you will normally only need to adjust the scope itself a about 1" in direction to get your 100 yard zero. This allows for the clearest image through your scope because it is centred internally,  and the scope itself should never loose its zero from recoil/handling unless the scope becomes defective.

Sorry for the length of this e-mail but before you can throw that scope in the garbage thinking it has internal issues you should try this procedure,  because buying a new scope won't fix your problems unless you have a proper mount.  

If you don;t feel comfortable doing this yourself any reputable gunsmith will be able to do this for you for usually a reasonable price.

[brentashley2000]

Hey guys, thanks for all the information! Sounds like I have a great way to spend the day tomorrow. Brent.

[Spanky]

Great post Adam.



Spanky

[Yak Angler]

Thanks Spanky.

I just got sick and tired of running into the same problem that brentashley2000 is having with his scope so a few years ago i researched how to mount them correctly. Unfortunatly this education came after i had already bought more expensive scopes which didn't remedy the problems . Live and learn I guess