Author Topic: Don't try to glass bed a XL7, it won't work!  (Read 3576 times)

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Offline Swampman

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Re: Don't try to glass bed a XL7, it won't work!
« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2009, 12:41:15 PM »
It doesn't bother me.  For what it's worth I can never figure out what it is I'm supposed to be doing wrong to be threatened with being banned.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline no guns here

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Re: Don't try to glass bed a XL7, it won't work!
« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2009, 09:34:56 PM »
You're right, the XL7 is much cheaper than the Tikka T3.  I think that's part of the reason why he's spending a lot of time and effort getting it to shoot.  You can only build in so much "quality" for a cheap price.  Something has to give somewhere.  Personally, my time is worth a MINIMUM of $24/hour since that is what I was paid at my last part-time hourly wage job from 2003-2005.  My Tikka cost $406 dollars in 2007.  The XL7 is currently going for $322 at budsgunshop.com.  Three hours of messing with the bedding, recoil lug etc puts the total price at almost the same amount as my Tikka that I DIDN'T work on at all.  Now the current Tikka's are around $550 at buds.  That does make a difference for some folks.

Personally, I don't find value in guns that have to be "fixed" to work right.  If I bought an XL7 or whatever for $300 and it shot LESS than two inches, I would be happy.  That's still acceptable deer and hog accuracy.  If I want a sub-inch gun I pay for it up front.  I would have to pay for the quality up front or pay for it in time and effort in the end.  I don't mind spending time or money to REPAIR one that is broken or that has some other value to me, but I won't spend time or money "fixing" something that isn't good quality to begin with.  If you are going to do that you might as well buy brand new cheap cars and put good engines in them or buy crappy scopes just so you can take them apart and put in good lenses...

NGH
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Don't try to glass bed a XL7, it won't work!
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2009, 02:11:23 AM »
I made a bit more than that per hour on my last job as well but that was a long time ago as I've now been retired for almost 15 years. Still I don't have a job these days and never again will cuz I don't want one. So my time doesn't really have a dollar value associated with it any longer. Unless you can and will be using that time on a job to make money I guess I don't see where that matters.

Some folks actually enjoy tinkering with their guns and consider it therapy of a sort. If you aren't one of them you'd not understand. I used to enjoy it more than I do these days so am less inclined to mess with them than I once was.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

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Offline MZ5

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Re: Don't try to glass bed a XL7, it won't work!
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2009, 03:36:09 AM »
That's a good point, GB, and here's another to consider:

Few people (I don't actually know any in my area right at this moment) take time off work to work on their rifles.  Since they're not actually taking time away from work, the amount of money they earn at work is immaterial to the price of the gun.

It is sufficient for a person to say that they prefer a gun that is perfect (to them) right out of the box.  It is also sufficient for a person to say that they enjoy tinkering/fiddling/whatever with their guns (or cars, or carpentry work, or anything else).  That makes it a hobby, which means they're deriving happiness from the thing whilst they paid less money for the original item.

Offline no guns here

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Re: Don't try to glass bed a XL7, it won't work!
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2009, 04:08:20 AM »
Now see... that's the difference.  If it's a HOBBY, that's one thing.  If your goal is to buy a cheap rifle and then do whatever is needed to get it to shooting accurately that's one thing.  Maybe it's just a challenge to some folks.  My goal is normally to buy a rifle/pistol/shotgun that functions correctly and shoots accurately "out of the box".  I'm not rich, which explains why I don't have all the guns I want, but I have enough to save up a little extra for a rifle that doesn't have to be "fixed" before it is acceptable.  Personally I wouldn't expect a rifle that sells for $322 to be a MOA gun.  I wouldn't expect it to have great machining, good polishing, or even decent fit and finish.  That type of rifle is an entry level rifle.  If it were accurate that would be a bonus in my book.  I just wouldn't buy one KNOWING that I would have to do work to it to make it good.  It's usually cheaper and easier to pay for quality on the front end than to rebuild something.


NGH
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Don't try to glass bed a XL7, it won't work!
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2009, 04:38:10 AM »
I think CNC machinery has gone a long way towards making most new centerfire rifles MOA.  This wasn't the case even 10 years ago as some companies were still using worn out machinery that dated to the 1920s & 30s.  Since my gunsmith charges $55.00 to even look at a gun any work that I can do myself, I do myself.

Since I try to buy used guns when I can I'm very careful about getting into something I can't fix myself.

I passed on a nice .32 Winchester Special Marlin the other day because the cost of having it drilled and tapped for a scope and a hammer that would accept a hammer spur would have added another $100.00+ to the rifle.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline crash87

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Re: Don't try to glass bed a XL7, it won't work!
« Reply #36 on: December 10, 2009, 04:56:29 AM »
One other point should be made on bedding plastic stocks. Many times, not all, a release agent is used in the manufacture of these stocks. It is not cleaned off, so what you have is residual deposits of release agent in and on your stock, and of course, bedding won't stick. Wipe out the release agent, then proceed with the other prep work. CRASH87

Offline Brithunter

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Re: Don't try to glass bed a XL7, it won't work!
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2009, 10:02:36 PM »
I think CNC machinery has gone a long way towards making most new centerfire rifles MOA.  This wasn't the case even 10 years ago as some companies were still using worn out machinery that dated to the 1920s & 30s.  Since my gunsmith charges $55.00 to even look at a gun any work that I can do myself, I do myself.

Since I try to buy used guns when I can I'm very careful about getting into something I can't fix myself.

I passed on a nice .32 Winchester Special Marlin the other day because the cost of having it drilled and tapped for a scope and a hammer that would accept a hammer spur would have added another $100.00+ to the rifle.


Doh!! I see the "Magic CNC" is mentioned again  ::) Yep CNC can be more consistant, note the CAN but it depends on a lot of things. Please note not all CNC controlled machines are equal and not all are capable of high accuracy and if the base machine is cheap junk putting a CNC control system on it will not improve things. Not all CNC control systems are capable of producing the same accuracy, if you want to get into the higher accuracy maching then the cost quickly escalates and it seems a lot of the aquistion of CNC machines is to save money they tend to cut corners when buying them so accuracy suffers. Once you have the basic machine and control system then you neeed tooling for the machine again this is where they cut corners and costs. I remember when the Carbide inserts first came in use for mainstream machining and Sandvik was the name. Their Tip when indexed in the holder would keep the set size to within 0.0001" but now they are just pressed and sintered they only claim accuracy when indexing the tip to 0.1mm 0.004" if you want the former accuracy you need to buy qualified tooling which costs about Five times the price.

Then we come to the programmer, and if they are good then it makes the job easier but if the programmer is bad and there seems to be a lot of poor of mediocre ones out there then the job is not a good one  >:( and finally the operator if they are on the ball they keep an eye on the sizes and tooling and make the small adjustments needed to keep everything in tolerance again cost cutting rears it's ugly head and they make an operator look after three of four machines. Which means of course that it's not really possible to keep the inspection by the operator as it should be.

So just because  a CNC machine is used does not mean the finished product is better. A lot of these modern firms would do well to even get close to the accuracy obtained by Mauser at Obendorf of BSA at Small Heath using their old manual and cam opperated Auto machinery ;)

Offline usherj

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Re: Don't try to glass bed a XL7, it won't work!
« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2009, 05:30:30 AM »
I have 2 T3s and gave my brother a XL7 last year for his birthday. I did have to pillar and glass bed the T3 338WM to get her to behave properly. The way it came it had uneven contact along the barrel channel. Significantly thinner barrel wall thicknes, who knows, but it did take a little tweaking. I love my T3s, but there are no flies on the XL7. The feel of the rifle, especially the pistol grip, was very, very nice for me. Tough to part with. Simply put, amazing value and made in the USA. Sub MOA no sweat.

Offline grout-scout

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Re: Don't try to glass bed a XL7, it won't work!
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2009, 04:38:03 PM »
No Gun- You obviously haven't shot or know anybody that has a XL7. Most and I mean like 98% of the reports I have read from other owners all say that their guns are moa from the factory. Maybe hard for you to believe because it's affordable; but believe it because I too have one!  :-*

Offline Harry Snippe

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Re: Don't try to glass bed a XL7, it won't work!
« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2009, 05:28:21 PM »
Don
You have not stated why you wanted to bed this gun in the first place . Was there a problem or is this something you do to all your guns. What groups were you getting before ?
Harry
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Offline tjrod

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Re: Don't try to glass bed a XL7, it won't work!
« Reply #41 on: December 14, 2009, 02:45:56 PM »
I won't do a thing to my xl7. All I did was clean it up nice and put a decent Nikon scope on it. This gun shoots the tightest three shot groups of all the rifles I own or have owned.  Why mess with it.