Author Topic: End of life "counselling"..Socialist style...  (Read 791 times)

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Offline ironglow

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End of life "counselling"..Socialist style...
« on: August 24, 2009, 04:18:27 AM »
  This by the German National Socialists (1933-1945)....
   
    First photo depicts one-on-one counselling;

  Second photo..group counselling...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Questor

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Re: End of life "counselling"..Socialist style...
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2009, 04:27:51 AM »
Today's European end of life counseling is a bit more subtle. The elderly are made to feed guilty by continuing to live. There is no stigma about being an impatient heir.

This is the approximate method used in Canada, when elderly are denied prompt medical attention because they are too old. It has a psychological effect.
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Offline crustaceous

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Re: End of life "counselling"..Socialist style...
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2009, 04:30:00 AM »
In fact, what the House bill does is require Medicare to cover appointments for elderly people who want to talk about end-of-life care with their doctor. If you have terminal, untreatable cancer and your heart stops, do you want chest compressions, which will likely break your ribs and cause excruciating pain? If you have a massive stroke and fall into a coma, do you want to be fed through a tube? As things now stand, the elderly have to pay for such consultations out-of-pocket unless they are covered by some Medicare Advantage plans. The House provision does not "compel seniors to submit to a counseling session every five years," as former New York lieutenant governor Betsy McCaughey wrote in the New York Post. But the idea of requiring Medicare to pay for the counseling (saving Grandma money!) morphed into Palin's Facebook post that people "will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgement of their 'level of productivity in society' whether they are worthy of health care."

The power of "death panels" as a phrase and a scare tactic also works because Americans are deeply uncomfortable with death. We don't like to think about it or talk about it, says bioethicist Tom Murray, president of the Hastings Center. Only 29 percent of us have a living will. As a result of that discomfort, reminding people of death sends them off the deep end, into the part of the neuronal pool where reason cowers behind existential terror. And we're particularly vulnerable to scaremongering in the atmosphere of dread created by the economic meltdown. When people are already scared about losing their jobs and their homes and paying for health care, it doesn't take a lot to make them afraid of one more thing. We're living with "free-floating anxiety" every day, says psychiatrist Louann Brizendine of the University of California, San Francisco. "The brain is signaling 'danger' right now. Whenever that happens, the brain typically loses its logical reasoning power." Fear is also the most contagious emotion. If Chuck Grassley is worried about death panels, millions of people reason (check that: feel), how can I be sure they're a myth?

http://www.newsweek.com/id/212131/page/1

Offline nomosendero

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Re: End of life "counselling"..Socialist style...
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2009, 05:09:52 AM »
Awe Newsweek, such a reliable source.  ::)  ;D
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Offline Questor

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Re: End of life "counselling"..Socialist style...
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2009, 05:22:24 AM »
The reality of the "death panel" phrase is that the news media did its best to discredit the concept, but then had to finally admit that there will be people who decide whether elderly people get treatment.

I am still not sure who coined the term, because it could either have been used as an alarmist phrase by people opposed to socialized medicine, or as a straw man by people in favor of it.
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Offline BBF

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Re: End of life "counselling"..Socialist style...
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2009, 08:13:41 AM »
IG;
  That person being shot in the top pix isn't old but an Enemy of the State and has nothing to do with HC. If the radical left could do that to the conservative elements in your or my country they would do it IMO.

Judging by the more bellicose types here they would equally be happy to pull the trigger on what they consider the radical left, socialists, Islamists  etc. Aww, lets not mess round with small stuff, a nuke or two will sove the problem ::)

Aren't we lucky those 3rd Reich pix are handy and can be used  for just about anything ::)
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Offline slim rem 7

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Re: End of life "counselling"..Socialist style...
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2009, 09:10:23 AM »
REAL  people all over this country are sure that never could happen again...
 i think the people who lived through iraq during hussains rule would probably differ...
 it can happen anywhere ambitous,unrestricted men without any standard of right or wrong stick thier nasty ugly heads up....if you don t believe it just stick around... the sheeps clothing may
be coming off sooner than we think..jmo slim

Offline crustaceous

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Re: End of life "counselling"..Socialist style...
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2009, 09:12:19 AM »
It's a miracle! Newsweek got it right! See page 424 of the acual bill!
http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

Offline ironglow

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Re: End of life "counselling"..Socialist style...
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2009, 12:58:29 PM »
 Socialism, Marxism, Communism,Nazism and Fascism, all puppies from the same litter..some just grow faster in certain, favorable conditions than do others in less favorable conditions.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline 1marty

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Re: End of life "counselling"..Socialist style...
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2009, 01:16:45 PM »
They are doing it already with wounded vets. They are asked to fill out an on line questionaire and the questions are geared to whether they are a burden on their family and usefulness to society. I understand the questionaire was just withdrawn from the government site.

Offline billy_56081

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Re: End of life "counselling"..Socialist style...
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2009, 02:52:18 PM »
I can see why the antisemites are for HHH's health care now.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline powderman

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Re: End of life "counselling"..Socialist style...
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2009, 04:42:31 PM »
I can't believe some of this crap, and we are doing WHAT about it??? POWDERMAN.  >:( >:(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline Questor

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Re: End of life "counselling"..Socialist style...
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2009, 05:26:01 AM »
Crustaceous:

I'm pretty good at reading stuff, but I don't understand how Newsweek got it right, as compared to what's in the actual bill. What did Newsweek conclude? Thanks.
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Offline Cabin4

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Re: End of life "counselling"..Socialist style...
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2009, 06:32:41 AM »
The Liberals claim this is not in the bill. Yet the same that claim its not in the bill are also the ones saying they did not read the bill. Interesting situation...Apparently we have the first situation in recorded history were truth and fact are on the opposite end of reality! This is how they lie about stuff and the press gives them a free pass.  Typical scenario: Well if I did not read the bill I can't verify it’s there, so that gives me the ability to say it’s not in the bill. If later proven its actually in the bill, then I can just claim I did not read the bill and the press will just let it slide because I'm a Liberal.

Liberals and their accomplices in the media are the supreme liars on the planet.
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Offline Questor

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Re: End of life "counselling"..Socialist style...
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2009, 06:41:25 AM »
Politics aside, I have made a reasonable effort to read and understand parts of the house bill. There is too much mark-up and too many references to existing laws to make sense of it. I truly cannot say that I have understood even the simplest things I have tried to read. I read (and write) specifications and contracts professionally, so it's not like I am unfamiliar with reading formal language.
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Offline ironglow

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Re: End of life "counselling"..Socialist style...
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2009, 07:40:32 AM »
Newsweek is joined at the hip with liberals of all sorts..anyone who has a bit of historical perspective already knows that and dismisses any (normally biased) explanation they try to make.
  As far as pg 424, it is just more gobble-de-gook..references to other documents..obviously meant to obfuscate and confuse the reader.
   I find it quite remarkable that the Constitution of this nation, which the whole country has operated upon for nearly 2&1/2 centuries..only required a few pages to state.
   Obviously, the Constitution was crafted by honest maen, trying to do honest statesmanship. They had no need to hide or conceal their  natural intent with 1,018 pages of blather & double-talk. If the HC bill were honest, they would need no more than a few pages.
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Offline Casull

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Re: End of life "counselling"..Socialist style...
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2009, 10:02:27 AM »
Quote
In fact, what the House bill does is require Medicare to cover appointments for elderly people who want to talk about end-of-life care with their doctor. If you have terminal, untreatable cancer and your heart stops, do you want chest compressions, which will likely break your ribs and cause excruciating pain? If you have a massive stroke and fall into a coma, do you want to be fed through a tube? As things now stand, the elderly have to pay for such consultations out-of-pocket unless they are covered by some Medicare Advantage plans.


BS!!!!!!!!!!!!  The elderly, and particularly those with terminal illnesses, tend to have regular appointments with their physicians (at least those on Medicare), and I've yet to hear of a doctor that charges EXTRA to talk to his patients during an appointment.   ::) ::) ::)
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Offline Cabin4

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Re: End of life "counselling"..Socialist style...
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2009, 10:07:20 AM »
They will charge if it is an appointment just to talk. Thats called a consultation.
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Offline Casull

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Re: End of life "counselling"..Socialist style...
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2009, 10:40:13 AM »
Quote
They will charge if it is an appointment just to talk. Thats called a consultation.

Of course they will.  My point was that the elderly and terminally ill have regular appointments.  They don't have to make an appointment just to talk, they can do it when they are there for other things.
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Offline ironglow

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Re: End of life "counselling"..Socialist style...
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2009, 10:50:30 AM »
Right Casull;

   Just more "smoke & mirrors" by the left.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline ironglow

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Re: End of life "counselling"..Socialist style...
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2009, 10:53:47 AM »
IG;
  That person being shot in the top pix isn't old but an Enemy of the State and has nothing to do with HC. If the radical left could do that to the conservative elements in your or my country they would do it IMO.

Judging by the more bellicose types here they would equally be happy to pull the trigger on what they consider the radical left, socialists, Islamists  etc. Aww, lets not mess round with small stuff, a nuke or two will sove the problem ::)

Aren't we lucky those 3rd Reich pix are handy and can be used  for just about anything ::)

  BBF;
    Your first sentence above..You didn't REALLY believe I was seriously depicting any recent situation did you ? With the emblems on the uniforms etc. I figured most anybody would catch the bit of irony...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)