On Gen. Robert Edward Lee

[subdjoe]

I was browsing and looking for some quotes by Gen. Lee about Independence Day and ran across this:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/wilson/wilson23.html

"This year is Robert E. Lee’s bicentennial – the 200th anniversary of his birth. Nothing better illustrates the swift and vicious descent of Political Correctness upon American history and symbols than the shadow that has, in just the last few years, been thrown over a man regarded (rightly) for well over a century as among the greatest of Americans.

Even before the War to Prevent Southern Independence had ended, his Northern enemies were claiming Lee as a prized exhibit of America’s contribution to the world. (As they also were claiming his great lieutenant, "Stonewall" Jackson.) Such a claim could hardly be avoided since the entirety of the civilized world, watching the American bloodbath with interest, had already made that judgment. The British military commentator, Viscount Wolsely, expressed much international opinion when he wrote of Lee: "He is stamped upon my memory as being apart and superior to all others in every way."

I like the phrase, "War to Prevent Southern Independence."  I had never run across it before.  Or don't remember it if I had. 

[Rustyinfla]

 I have a very good book around here somewhere on Lee that I read about 10 years ago. Two things that stood out to me were that he considered himself a Virginian before he considered him self an American and that is where his loyality lay.


  He also made the statement at a meeting in a somewhat private setting about 15 years after the war had ended that if he had known how badly  the South was going to be treated after the war he would have never surrendered. He did not consider a guerrilla type conflict to be honorable but if he had possessed the foresight to see what was going to happen he would have considered it as an option.

[subdjoe]

 I have a very good book around here somewhere on Lee that I read about 10 years ago. Two things that stood out to me were that he considered himself a Virginian before he considered him self an American and that is where his loyality lay.


  He also made the statement at a meeting in a somewhat private setting about 15 years after the war had ended that if he had known how badly  the South was going to be treated after the war he would have never surrendered. He did not consider a guerrilla type conflict to be honorable but if he had possessed the foresight to see what was going to happen he would have considered it as an option.

If it was that long after the War to Prevent Southern Independence, it couldn't have been Gen. Lee.  I've read that story, and can't for the life of me remember where. 

ADDD: Found it in "The South Was Right."  In 1870 Rosecrans asked Gen. Lee to make a statement about how happy the South was to be in the Union again.  Lee Set up a meeting with Rosecrans and several prominant Confederates.  Stockdale of TX made comments that they were back in the Union, and would not rise again.  After that statement the meeting ended.  Lee closed teh door before Stockdale left and told him that he could not mak any public statemnts because his words carried too much weight.  Then he made that statemnet to Stockdale.  I've not been able to confirm that this really happened, butit has the feel of truth.

[SouthernByGrace]

Joe, you're right that it couldn't have been Lee that long after the war, as he died in 1870.
I, too, have read several stories of Lee making that statement to Stockdale at that meeting. And it was indeed after the meeting was over that he said it.
This meeting was actually set up by Unionists to help show that the South was wrong in their "efforts" to secede. Lee, having been invited in the hopes he would speak on behalf of the South, quickly realized the meeting was an attempt to actually demonize the South, he refused to speak publicly.
Paraphrasing Lee: If I had known the South would be treated in this way, I would never have surrendered at Appomattox. No sir, not in a thousand years.
Lee was appalled at how the Union treated Southerners after the war and felt he was powerless to stop it.

Another great book about Lee is Reading The Man: A Portrait of Robert E. Lee Through His Private Letters, by Elizabeth Brown Pryor, (2007). Ga.windbreak also has a copy and can attest to how revealing this book is about Lee's feelings on many subjects, including the surrender. All through his own personal correspondence.

I think the whole thing boils down to the North being jealous that Robert E. Lee fought for the Confederacy and not the Union.   JMO

SBG

[Rustyinfla]

 My bad, I'm sure my timing is off. I do that all the time.

[SouthernByGrace]

LOL Rusty...

I think we all do from time to time...

You had the right idea though.

SBG

[subdjoe]

Yeah, so many dates, places, similar quotes all jumbled up in the little grey cells things are bound to get mixed up.  But if Gen. Lee had waited just a few months to say that, he wouldn't have.  (he fell asleep in the Lord just a few months after that)

[Ga.windbreak]

 I have a very good book around here somewhere on Lee that I read about 10 years ago. Two things that stood out to me were that he considered himself a Virginian before he considered him self an American and that is where his loyality lay.

  He also made the statement at a meeting in a somewhat private setting about 15 years after the war had ended that if he had known how badly  the South was going to be treated after the war he would have never surrendered. He did not consider a guerrilla type conflict to be honorable but if he had possessed the foresight to see what was going to happen he would have considered it as an option.

Of any man I've read about, other than Jackson and Davis, R.E. Lee stands out as to just how great his inter turmoil was. You must remember this is a man who was married to the granddaughter of George Washington and whos father was George Washington's right hand man. He was surrounded by the history of liberty of this country much more than most. Much the same can be said of Davis who's father fought beside Washington. What stories these young men would have heard growing up.

Lee was so keen on keeping his decision his own he wouldn't even advise others as to what they should do, which is why I admire him all the more. Yet there are others who, although less famous, did as Lee did.

SBG is right, the Book he refers to is as good as any I've read on R.E. Lee and better than most because you really get the feelings of this great man by being able to read his letters. He was not a great speaker yet he was a great letter writer, as was Davis, and its thru those you get a real sense of the person behind those cold blue steel eyes.

 

[subdjoe]

oops, wrong thread.

[Rustyinfla]

   Someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the land that is now used by the Imperial Federal Gov't as Arlington National Cemetery once the land that belonged to Robert E. Lee?

[subdjoe]

   Someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the land that is now used by the Imperial Federal Gov't as Arlington National Cemetery once the land that belonged to Robert E. Lee?

Yes, that was his, though his wife.  That it became our National Cemetery was a bit of vindictiveness by the Federal government.
From the Arlington website: "The property was confiscated by the federal government when property taxes levied against Arlington estate were not paid in person by Mrs. Lee. The property was offered for public sale Jan. 11, 1864, and was purchased by a tax commissioner for "government use, for war, military, charitable and educational purposes."

Arlington National Cemetery was established by Brig. Gen. Montgomery C. Meigs, who commanded the garrison at Arlington House, appropriated the grounds June 15, 1864, for use as a military cemetery. His intention was to render the house uninhabitable should the Lee family ever attempt to return. A stone and masonry burial vault in the rose garden, 20 feet wide and 10 feet deep, and containing the remains of 1,800 Bull Run casualties, was among the first monuments to Union dead erected under Meigs' orders. Meigs himself was later buried within 100 yards of Arlington House with his wife, father and son; the final statement to his original order." 

And I believe that some were buried within just a few feet of the house.

[SouthernByGrace]

Most people don't know that Lee's descendants sued the Federal Government in 2003 (?) for illegally seizing the property. And THEY WON! The Gov't. wanted to pay them what the property was worth at the time it was illegally taken, but the family argued that the property, having been in the hands of the Federal Government the entire time was worth multiples of that offer. The courts (Federal, mind you) agreed, and the family was compensated for Arlington Plantation at Today's Value. This came from an article in Confederate Veteran Magazine.

The main structure at Arlington National Cemetery was in fact Robert E. Lee's private home. He was never allowed to return after the war. However, I think we can all agree that General Meigs' intention has since backfired on him. Instead of a place of disgrace and dishonor, Arlington has become the most hallowed ground in America. For a fallen soldier to be buried there is among the very highest honors that can be bestowed upon him. And WE have the Honor and Pride of knowing that it is Southern Ground!

SBG

[subdjoe]

They should have taken the value in 1861 PLUS the interest from that time.  Say, 15,000 compounded annually for 150 years?  That would be a chunk of change.

[Rustyinfla]

   Well what do you  know finally an American citizen who wasn't entirely taken to the cleaners by the Gov't. Thank you SBG I'm glad to know that things were put right at least on some level.

  I do seem to remember from when I visited there back some 40 years ago learning from a history of the place that it had links to the Custis  family.

[ruhamey]

See my avatar. That is a painting by a local artist in my hometown. It, to me, captures the man.

[Gary G]

Most people don't know that Lee's descendants sued the Federal Government in 2003 (?) for illegally seizing the property. And THEY WON! The Gov't. wanted to pay them what the property was worth at the time it was illegally taken, but the family argued that the property, having been in the hands of the Federal Government the entire time was worth multiples of that offer. The courts (Federal, mind you) agreed, and the family was compensated for Arlington Plantation at Today's Value. This came from an article in Confederate Veteran Magazine.

The main structure at Arlington National Cemetery was in fact Robert E. Lee's private home. He was never allowed to return after the war. However, I think we can all agree that General Meigs' intention has since backfired on him. Instead of a place of disgrace and dishonor, Arlington has become the most hallowed ground in America. For a fallen soldier to be buried there is among the very highest honors that can be bestowed upon him. And WE have the Honor and Pride of knowing that it is Southern Ground!

SBG

Forgive me, but that still is not fair. You see, the government has no money so they were given money that they must plunder from all of us. I would rather them  apologize and give the land back. It is good though that they were proved to be criminals.

[SouthernByGrace]

Hey Gary, this could have been one of those things that helped bring about today's depression... The amount they won was in the 100's of millions...    But you're right; it served to prove the government to be criminal in taking Arlington.   
I would much rather my tax dollars go to the Lee family, Any Day, over some fat s.o.b. executive as a bonus for running his company in the ground...   


SBG

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