new rifle - multiple barrels

[Bearskinz]

I was thinking of a new Savage rifle buy and need input on multiple barrels. For myself, I see a need for both .308 Win and .243 Win. A new short-action model would accomodate either barrel and give the advantage of a single trigger to learn. Since the cartridge cases are so similar, it should not require a separate bolt, correct? The biggest problem I see is bedding the two barrels. I can imagine taking both barrels to the range and swapping them out during the shooting session. Is a single stock and action plausible, and, if so, is getting the dealer supplying the first configuration to assist in buying the second barrel the best way to proceed?

[james]

I put an after market custom barrel on my Savage but once I got it sighted in, I don't want to mess up the one hole groups.  I have heard of welding the nut on the Savages to make it a switch barrel rifle but you will still have to sight it in after every swap. I prefer not to change scoped barrels on my TC encores because I still have to sight them in.  Accuracy is important to me. The only reason I can see for switch barrels would be if a person was traveling and space or weight was an issue.   With the price of ammo to sight in, there is little $ savings by having multi barrels for one action. 

[the jigger]

I agree with James. I started the same project. I had a Savage 10 "Sierra" in 308 and decided to make it a "switch barrel". I bought a take off 25/06 barrel from my smith and had it chambered for 250/3000. Put it on and started shooting. When I needed/wanted the 308 I didn't want to screw up the 250 so I bought a Stevens 200 in a caliber that my smith wanted and put my barrel on the action. I suppose what I am trying to say is buy two Stevens 200 and never look back. You won't be sorry.
GOOD LUCK and GOOD SHOOTING!!!

[LaOtto222]

You will not need to change bolt heads and the magazine should accommodate both. In most, if not all, Savage/Stevens barrels are completely free floated so there are no worries about bedding.

Switching barrels on a Stevens/Savage is easy - it is not so easy to do it in the field. I need to take off the scope and rail so I can get a good grip on the action with an action wrench. I suppose you could modify the action/barrel nut to make it easier to switch, but I would think the scope would still be a problem. You would have to re-sight in the scope after changing barrels - it stays on the action, unlike a T/C that stays with the barrel. I think of the Stevens/Savage action as one you can change calibers for rather easily - you certainly do not need to be a gunsmith to change barrels. But switching back and forth like a T/C or Handi Barrels is not the same - it is a little more involved than that. You will need at the very least an barrel nut wrench. You can get by with not much more. You can make a home made action wrench or a action vice. I have bought a regular action wrench and to make it even easier I have a barrel vice as well. Not needed, but makes swapping out barrels and setting head space real easy. Of course this all needs to be done at my bench and like I said the removal of the scope and rail. It is easy, but not so easy as the T/C Contender or the Encore or even the Handi rifle.

BTW get a 7mm-08 and you can span both chores of the 243 and 308... better yet get both. Good Luck and Good Shooting

[danwolla]

new question pertinent to this thread I hope.   I read, also, the idea of welding or locktighting the barrel nut.  I thought hey what a good idea, my question is if the barrel could be removed without removing the action from the stock.  could a couple of "strap wrenches" be used,one to hold the stock/action, and one to hold the barrel?  If the barrel channel is too tight, could it just be hogged out as long as looks are not a major concern?

[LaOtto222]

As far as the barrel channel is concerned - just free float the barrels. Open the barrel channel up so that the fattest barrel is free floated and then when you swap barrels you have no worries. Savage/Stevens come with free floated barrels to start with. On both of my rebuilds, I opened the barrel channel on the stock so that the barrels were free floated. I bedded the action and behind and below the recoil lug, but no bedding beyond the bottom of the recoil lug - the barrels are totally free floated.

As far as a fixed barrel nut - I never gave it a thought. It might work. There are several ways of fixing the barrel nut to the barrel. Welding scares me, you would need to be careful about not heating the barrel up much, because it could cause it to warp. Once a barrel is warped, you will find it not to shoot very well. It would be right at the chamber, I would think that a chamber that is "bent" would cause all kinds of problems. Maybe a better way to go would be to epoxy the nut to the barrel with JB Weld or similar type of bonding material. You could also cross drill it off center with a roll pin in the hole. You do not have to really jamb on the nut to get a good fit. It only has to be tight enough to take all the slack out of the threads and the barrel not move during firing. I can get into all kinds of technical descriptions on thread engagement - but threads are not a precise fit. You need to deform the threads a little to make sure they are all engaged all the way around and up and down the thread length. If there is any play in the barrel/action joint, it will play havoc with accuracy. I have not tried it, but you may be able to get enough torque on the barrel with strap wrenches. You maybe able to make "spanner" wrenches too. Use one of the gas blow by holes on the action and drill a hole in the barrel nut for a spanner wrench (once you have fastened the nut to the barrel. I would think that you would need to have a consistent torque from one barrel change to another and back. You maybe able to index the barrel and action with a "mark". Once you have the barrel set to the correct torque scratch a line between the barrel nut and the action on the underside, so that when you refit the barrel, you come back to the same mark each time.

Another though on quick change barrels - use interrupted threads, like on Hornady's Lock 'N Load dies. I am not sure if there would be enough strength left as more that 50% of the threads would be machined away. It might be a problem on large diameter head cartridges and high intensity (high pressure) cartridges. You would torque down the barrel properly and the make a mark on the nut and action. fasten the barrel nut to the barrel with a pin. Then take apart and machine away enough threads in the action and barrel so that they could slip together and then you give it a half turn or so to tighten the barrel to the action - back to the previous marks you made so your head space would be consistent.

I am not advocating the use of any of these thoughts -  that is exactly what they are thoughts - food for thought. No practical tests or even running numbers on thread strength or barrel pressures.

Good Luck and Safe Shooting

[helotaxi]

Tack welding the nut to the barrel might work and keeping the welds small would minimize the chance of the heat doing any damage.  Problem that I see with interrupted threads is that the barrel therading is pretty shallow and cutting 50% of the contact area away would weaken the joint.

.243 and .308 are the same case so the bolt head and magazine are the same. You can also use the same headspace gauges to install both barrels.

[jsh]

I have a good friend that has fooled with Savages for a long time. He has one 110 that has a 25-06, 270, 30-06 and 35 Whelan barrels that he swaps on a regular basis. He keeps a note card of what the scope adjustment is for each barrel in the ammo box. I thought him to be nuts when he decided to do this. All of these barrels had loads worked up that shoot an honest 5 shot, 1" or smaller group at 100M.
Granted when swapping they will not go back to exact zero, maybe off 2" at the most. Headspace is fairly simple as you can set it to match your dies rather than work the brass a lot.
I have contemplated selling one of my Remingtons and put a switch barrel together.
Also if I remmeber correctly, someone is making a follower for standar action length that will work better for the 308 family.
Jeff

[bhod1]

I have a Stevens, bought it as a 25-06, and have added a 30-06 and 22-250 barrel. I use the 25-06 as my primary deer hunting cartridge. I have the 30-06 in case I may want to go on a bear hunt or get drawn for a moose permit. I had the 22-250 on for the winter for coyotes. I only swap a few times a year, depending on the season.

I will reinforce what has been said above. The switch barrel concept in the Savage has its uses, but it is NOT an NEF or TC.  I can't imagine trying to swap barrels on a Savage at the range.

The 308/243 combo would be nice if you are thinking maybe the 308 as your game rifle and the 243 as a varmint rifle?  Remember you are re-zeroing the scope every time you change barrels. 

As far as purchasing the extra barrels, you can find plenty of factory 'take-off' barrels on the internet quite inexpensively. No need to go through a gun shop for those.

[bckskin2]

Do barrels for the old 110 interchange with the new ones? I want to get a rifle & barrel it in .221 & leave it. I keep looking at gun shows for an old plain jane 110, but all I find are the newer prettier more expensive one. With that price I would get a CZ in .221.
Jerry

[LaOtto222]

The model 110 and all 3 digit designations are long action rifles. the 221 Fireball is a rather short cartridge. I would look for a short action rifle a model 10, 14, 16 etc. Even a Stevens 200 would work OK. A model 12 would be great too, but they are a top of the line type rifle, so I doubt you could find any at a reasonable price. The barrels listed on Midway USA listed under a model 110 will fit the short action rifles. I got a 221 Fireball barrel for my 200 Stevens and it worked out fine. A chain store here where I live had new Stevens 223's on sale for $279 recently. They periodically have them on sale for that price. You can use the same stock, it only needs the barrel channel opened up if the barrel you get is a varmint diameter. The triggers are not the best, but you can rework them and get them to shoot better or you can get an after market trigger for under $100 that is a sweet set up. The Midway barrels are $129 +shipping. Just make sure you purchase a small head rifle that takes a 223 case. If you buy a long action rifle you are going to have to change the head and the 221 will not feed out of the magazine because they do not make a long action with a small head. It should feed out of a 223. I converted mine to a single shot with a loading tray so I am not positive on that. Good Luck and Good Shooting

[helotaxi]

The barrels are the same dimensions regardless of chambering or action length on all the Savage rifles (with the exception of the ultra-mags and some of the newer target actions).  The Savage rifles are really easy to rebarrel, but making them a true switch-barrel isn't as easy and as cheap as Stevens rifles are to use as actions for a build, trying to make a true switch barrel is really not worth the trouble.  All you need to do is find the right bolt face size for the cartridge that you want.  If you're planning for a .473 bolt faced cartridge you can use either a long or short action for the short action calibers, though a correctly paired action will make mating up a magazine simpler if you are planning a repeater.  If you're planning a single shot, get what you can find on sale (I've seen Stevens .270s as low as $200 new) as all you will need is a follower.

There's a ton of info on the Savage rifles at www.savageshooters.com