Author Topic: how quiet can a .357 mag be loaded? (Read 1864 times)

buckslayer · « **on:** January 17, 2009, 07:21:07 AM »

i need a gun that i can shoot accurately enough to hit a fox or coon at 50 yards. that said, i need a gun quiet enough so the neighbors dont pitch a sookie fit. i am perfectly legal in every way to be hunting my land, but to keep the peace, i need to be as quiet as possible. now before you say if your legal, screw the neighbors, you need to understand I have to live with em, not you, so no cannons going boom boom here. a .410 is about as loud as they will put up with, 12 and 20 gauge puts em into spasms. i want to get a .357 handi, cuz they sound like plain ol' fun, or i would use one of my sportster .17's. so my question is, can a hand loader load a .357 mag subsonic, say down around 700 fps or slower, and still get decent accuracy, and be as quiet or quieter than a .410?

B.L.E. · « **Reply #1 on:** January 17, 2009, 07:34:40 AM »

I have a Marlin Cowboy II in .357 mag and the answer to your question is yes. Even full power .357 mag isn't that loud in a rifle and .38 specials shot through it are quieter than any .410 shotgun. Anything under 1100 fps will not have that supersonic crack that says "someone just shot a rifle" to everyone in hearing range.
The Marlin has a 24 inch barrel, the longer the barrel, the quieter the boom. .38 specials should be reasonably quiet even in an 18 inch barrel.

When used in cowboy action shooting, sometimes the .357 rifles don't make enough report to trigger the electonic timers reliably. A lot of people who write stage scenarios make it a point not to make the rifle the last gun used for that reason.

Steve P · « **Reply #2 on:** January 17, 2009, 07:44:47 AM »

And a plastic soda bottle to catch the gases will make it even quieter.........
or so I have heard

Steve

tn_junk · « **Reply #3 on:** January 17, 2009, 08:43:12 AM »

I shoot .38 Spcl loads (148 grain cast wadcutter over HP38 Powder) in my .357 MAX handi and it is as quiet, or quieter, than a .22. My load is straight off the Hogdon website and runs about 850 fps.

alan

Rustyinfla · « **Reply #4 on:** January 17, 2009, 08:59:05 AM »

I'd watch that soda bottle stuff. That might get you a long stay in the graybar hotel if you're found out.

Do a Google search on Cat sneeze loads and anything you can think of related to that term, such as quiet load etc.

The secret is a long barrel, a heavy bullet and fast powder. In a .357 I'd be thinking 180- 200 grain cast bullet with no gas check since gas checks can come off at too low a speed. Couple that with a light charge of Bullseye and see what works for you. I doubt your neighbors will even know you're shooting unless they watch you pull the trigger.

I use a .44 with a 300 grain bullet with great results.

mitch132 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 17, 2009, 11:18:56 AM »

My experience with a .357 handi is zero, but I would be concerned about their twist rate when using the heavy grain bullets. The FAQ's list the twist rate being 1 in 18.75". A 1 in 14" or faster may be desirable. Also I know that in my 7.62x39 a 180 grain subsonic load is much louder than a 123 grain subsonic. I believe this is due to less initial pressure required to get the bullet moving, and thus less pressure being released at the muzzle. If you have small targets around the size of a squirrel or so, I would recommend a .22 firing CB longs. CCI makes these as well as others, but they fire a 29 grain bullet at 710 fps and are VERY quiet. So much so the impact is louder than the gun going off. For bigger targets, a .38 Special would do nicely. Shorter bullets would stand a better chance of stabilizing in that twist rate at low velocities, and lead bullets require less powder to get them moving. With this in mind, I would guess a 148 grain lead wad cutter or smaller and a light load of either Bullseye, N310, Red Dot, or HP38 due to their high relative quickness should work nicely.

For good information on developing subsonic loads, check out this site...

http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/DevelopSubsonic.html

Good luck and happy hunting!

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #6 on:** January 17, 2009, 11:24:39 AM »

Quote from: mitch132 on January 17, 2009, 11:18:56 AM

My experience with a .357 handi is zero, but I would be concerned about their twist rate when using the heavy grain bullets. The FAQ's list the twist rate being 1 in 18.75". A 1 in 14" or faster may be desirable. For good information on developing subsonic loads, check out this site...

Not a problem .357s where designed around 180gr bullets, they work great out of my handies. as do .38 with 180-200 grain slugs. Loaded down they are very quiet.

buckslayer · « **Reply #7 on:** January 17, 2009, 11:42:11 AM »

Quote from: buckslayer on January 17, 2009, 07:21:07 AM

i need a gun that i can shoot accurately enough to hit a fox or coon at 50 yards. that said, i need a gun quiet enough so the neighbors dont pitch a sookie fit. i am perfectly legal in every way to be hunting my land, but to keep the peace, i need to be as quiet as possible. now before you say if your legal, screw the neighbors, you need to understand I have to live with em, not you, so no cannons going boom boom here. a .410 is about as loud as they will put up with, 12 and 20 gauge puts em into spasms. i want to get a .357 handi, cuz they sound like plain ol' fun, or i would use one of my sportster .17's. so my question is, can a hand loader load a .357 mag subsonic, say down around 700 fps or slower, and still get decent accuracy, and be as quiet or quieter than a .410?

and i wish to remain so. please dont discuss stuff like this on graybeards, he has made it VERY clear not to suggest anything illegal, and i totally agree.
keep the silencer crap outta my discussions.
as for the others, thanks for the suggestions, i think this just might work.

Doublebass73 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 17, 2009, 03:24:50 PM »

I'd like to 2nd the 148 grain .38 special wadcutters. They shoot very accurate from my .357 Handi and are quieter than a .22. Go for it.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #9 on:** January 17, 2009, 03:47:54 PM »

Quote from: buckslayer on January 17, 2009, 11:42:11 AM

Quote from: buckslayer on January 17, 2009, 07:21:07 AM
i need a gun that i can shoot accurately enough to hit a fox or coon at 50 yards. that said, i need a gun quiet enough so the neighbors dont pitch a sookie fit. i am perfectly legal in every way to be hunting my land, but to keep the peace, i need to be as quiet as possible. now before you say if your legal, screw the neighbors, you need to understand I have to live with em, not you, so no cannons going boom boom here. a .410 is about as loud as they will put up with, 12 and 20 gauge puts em into spasms. i want to get a .357 handi, cuz they sound like plain ol' fun, or i would use one of my sportster .17's. so my question is, can a hand loader load a .357 mag subsonic, say down around 700 fps or slower, and still get decent accuracy, and be as quiet or quieter than a .410?
and i wish to remain so. please dont discuss stuff like this on graybeards, he has made it VERY clear not to suggest anything illegal, and i totally agree.
keep the silencer crap outta my discussions.
as for the others, thanks for the suggestions, i think this just might work.

i have a legal suppressor for a 357/38 but i won't suggest that

i actually prefer my load of 3 grains bullseye under 180 gr WFN from lbt
it is for most all my 38 shooting in all my guns

from 22inch handi i get 800 to 850 fps and acurrate
quieter than a 22

i am sure i could use less powder
if i didn't have this mold try heavyer slug
as mentioned stay away frome gas checks as the bullet i coasting and lead may out run the check in the barrel
with other [44 ] quiet loads i developed i seat the bullets deeper
this makes the powder burn quicker/quieter
and aids in identifying the loads later on in the feild

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 17, 2009, 06:44:06 PM »

Wh not just use a .410?

tykempster · « **Reply #11 on:** January 17, 2009, 07:14:26 PM »

A grain or two of Unique under a round ball put right down on the powder.

VERY QUIET.

omcforever · « **Reply #12 on:** January 17, 2009, 11:39:12 PM »

Saw I fella do the soda jug bit once. It split down the side and was actually louder and very dangerous. That is a BIG NO-NO!!!

Graycg · « **Reply #13 on:** January 18, 2009, 04:42:10 AM »

Veral Smith from LBT used have a flyer that had very specific directions on making quiet suburban type loads and they focused around small amounts of very fast powder over a deep seated heavier bullet, I believe he as talking about using his 150 grain ogival wadcutters and seating the bullet as deep into the case as possible. I never went that far, but can tell you that I've have gone down to as low as 2.0 grains of bullseye out of my 25 inch barrelled martini with a regular wadcutter pressed all the way down into the case. Three important things: 1. They were accurate out to 50 yards, but you will likely need to resight for them. 2. they are unbelievably quiet, you hear the bullet hit the target if you are listening. 3. Don't underestimate the penetration, they will pass through a 1/2 inch plywood board at 10 yards., never tested further. I guess there is a 4...when you take this experiment on, have a proper rod for getting stuck bullets out of the barrel....minimum loads from shorter barrels may run out of oomph in a longer rifle barrel.

regards,
Graycg

cwlongshot · « **Reply #14 on:** January 19, 2009, 03:26:46 AM »

I remember reading an article by a guy who's name escapes me.. Kelly or PB, EB something or other.. any way it was on leveractions site. PO Kelly Paco Kelly maybe???

Anyho, It was about ultra for caliber loadings to get noise down for back yard pest control. good article... I'll look later, I know I have it...somewhere. Heavy LONG bullets seated deeply to reduce case cap and allow for little powder charges. Maybe thats enough infor and someone can web search with my criteria and find it...

CW

I looked quick.. I think this is the guy... http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/

mitch132 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 19, 2009, 11:57:17 AM »

I think this is the link you were talking about CW.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/small_charges.htm

mechanic · « **Reply #16 on:** January 19, 2009, 01:38:32 PM »

We used some 180 gr. cast roundnose over 2gr. Bulleye in a 38 case from a loooooong barrel pistol once. Even from a revolver it was relatively quiet. From a rifle it should be very much so.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #17 on:** January 19, 2009, 01:57:13 PM »

OMC.
With the soda bottle your supose to poke a hole in it for the bullet to come out.
Easiest way is to drop a cleaning rod down the barrel, attacth the soda bottle then tip the gun forward to get the rod to touch the bottom of the bottle and use a drill with a quarter inch bit to make a hole for a 22 and it works as long as you go 1 shot per second.
With a 38 I would use a 3/8" drill bit.
Or at least that is what I am told. I would not know as I would never break the law and do such a thing to get rid of feral cats in the neighborhood.

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #18 on:** January 19, 2009, 03:16:08 PM »

I am seriously concidering putting up the dollars it takes to get a suppresor permit so I can use it on my .357 handie, No real reason ceptin I wanna.

BTW listen to this......... betcha didn't hear a thing now thats quiet.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #19 on:** January 19, 2009, 03:36:48 PM »

i have one

just work with quiet loads first

you may just save $1000

i got a price on a handi barrel built in suppressor

just looks like a bull barrel

even with a suppressor
your bullets can't exceed 1100 fps
or you get a sonic boom even if you don't hear the gun

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #20 on:** January 20, 2009, 05:43:37 AM »

Personally I set up a tube fed bolt action 22 to shoot CB longs and mounted a 2X pistol scope on it. It looks like a mini scout rifle with a long barrel. We ended up calling it CDG. For Click Ding Giggle. When you shoot it all you hear is the click of the firing pin then the ding of hitting a gong and everyone looks at it and giggles. I got the idea from my neighbor that has one of the CZ 452 rifles with the 28 inch barrel. He shoots the 60 grain Sub Sonic Sniper rounds from Aguilla out of his and it is finger snap loud.
The other rifle I had that was real quiet and packed a wallop was a Remington rolling block in 32 rim fire long. It was about at loud as my pellet rifle and would toss a 90 grain bullet. It was not real accurate past 25 yards so I sold it.
I wonder if I could have a handi barrel made in 32 rimfire? Oh yea the 310 cadet rounds are real quiet as well.
But generally the longer the barrel the quieter.

B.L.E. · « **Reply #21 on:** January 22, 2009, 02:00:59 AM »

I get the same results with CCI standard velocity .22, click-ding. My rifle never grouped well with CCI CB longs and the rifling twist in my .22 doesn't seem to be fast enough to stabilize the 60 grain sub-sonic ammo from Aguilla, I get keyholes at 25 yds with that ammo.

I can shoot 1.5 to 2 inch groups with CCI .22 lr standard velocity at 50 yds using iron sights.

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 22, 2009, 11:38:47 AM »

I like those .22 cal. CCI SV but they travel although sub sonic at 1075 to 1100 ft. per sec. and are quiet, but can still make a sharp crack, and the whine of a ricochet, which I think is what would rattle the neighbors more than the report of the round going off, especially in a suburban setting.

The big heavy chunk of lead from a .38 special traveling considerably slower than 1075 ft. per second would be much more neighbor friendly in my opinion.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #23 on:** January 22, 2009, 12:23:48 PM »

For neighbor friendly I shoot the 17 HMR with the 17 grain ballistic tips. One loud bang and no one cares but with it's speed and bullet construction it will not ricochette to get rid of pests. but for plinking and practice the 22 CB's get the nod over the 177 pellet gun.
Especally when I was in Southern CA and there were rocks every where.