Proper bullet size and design in 45/70 for whitetail and steel to 200 yds

[hhagan]

Hello, Veral,

I am in the process of choosing a bullet for my Ruger #1 in 45/70. I enjoy shooting my rifle currently with an RCBS gas checked flat nose, 300 grain, over 16.5 gr of trailboss giving me 1250 fps, soft recoil, and accuracy with open sights of 1.20" at 50 yards. The rifle is capable of much heavier loads and better accuracy than I am. I am looking for the most accurate bullet design in the 350 to 400 grain range, gas checked, with velocities in the 1500 fps range. I intend to use the rifle on whitetail and steel out to about 150 yards. I have purchased and used your rifle throat sizing slugs and prepared the cases to send to you. I am confused regarding the order process. The groove diameter on my rifle is .459 but the catalog does not give me a choice larger than .458.

Questions:
1) Best weight bullet, in your opinion, for these applications?
2) Do you adjust bullet diameter based on the throat and chamber sizing slugs I send to you or is .458 the only option?
3) Any other powder recomendations for this size bullet and application?

Thanks for your help!

[Graybeard]

There is no real reason to not use the load you already have as it's up to the task at hand. But if ya gotta have another I can recommend two good moulds for you if you cast your own.

The first is the Lyman 457643. It is a 400 grain flat base NON gas check bullet with wide meplat that is my favorite for hunting with the .45-70. If you use a decently hard alloy you'll not need a GC at 1500 fps but there is really no need to push it that fast either.

The other is the RCBS 45-405-FN which is a gas checked bullet with decent size meplat. If you want to really push it harder this one with GC is the one to use.

I prefer the Lyman but both are excellent bullets fully up to the job you wish them to perform and are my recommendations. Size them to the bore size and go 0.001" over that bore diameter when sizing. Use a good lube and you'll get good results.

My favorite powder for the .45-70 is IMR3031 as far as I'm concerned there is no better for good accuracy.

[hhagan]

Thanks for the advice! I am always a little reluctant to push a non gas checked bullet faster than 850-900 fps because of my experience with leading in handguns. I use wheelweights & 50/50 bar solder to hit close to Lyman #2 and quench in ice water, bhn of 18 by Lee tester. What leading issues, if any, have you had with non gas checked bullets in the 1500 fps range in your 45/70?

Appreciate it!

[Graybeard]

None.

[hhagan]

Thanks for the feedback, Greybeard! I wonder if Veral could address my questions regarding mould sizing. I would like to purchase one of his moulds. Will the bullet diameter be adjusted based on the case and throat mold I send, or is the bullet sized .458? It appears that my bore slugs at .459, so would a bullet made for my rifle have a diameter of .460? Thanks for any assistance!

[Veral]

  Unless you are fortunate enough to have a 45-70 with a very tight chamber, 457 and 458 bullets aren't going to give you top accuracy, and especially so if they are short on bearing length.  I recommend shooters of all the guns with the same type of chambering, to use a bullet diameter that fills the cartridge to a close case neck/chamber fit.  This minimizes bullet tip dramatically. and does wonders for accuracy.  Of coarse the barrel must be straight and true inside or it can't guide the bullet, and  quite smooth if you want to shoot plainbase at maximum possible velocity.  Lapping with the LBT bore lap kit will fix this.

  I recommend my LFN bullet for game shooting with 45-70 rifles, especially if you want to use PB and the lower velocities one is constrained to without gas checks.  If you like to get kicke around, gas checked bullets can be driven suprisingly close to 458 Win velocites from the No1.  If you want to load it to 'Swift' velocities, get an M bullet in 400 gr or heavier, and 2000 fps will be easy with the lighter weight.  But that's over kill or anything in north america and I'm not recommending it.  Only offering what's available to scratch special itches.

  With a 459 barrel you are going to be AWFUL unhappy with a bullet that's not at least that large.  Simplest way to determine what the chamber will handle is to measure the inside of a few cases which have been fired with stout loads.  Order whatever size you get, and a sizer .001 smaller.

  About 20 years ago a customer called about getting a 45-70 bullet for his Pedersolli.  He had never cast and knew nothing about it, and the rifle had not been delivered yet.  I made the above recommendations, and being totally ignorant, he followed my advise to the letter.  In a couple days he sent me targets which he had fired in 100 deg+ weather, in Phoenix.  No groups over a half inch and many were a quarter inch.   He was using heavy charges of smokeless powder and LBT bullet lube. --  If you talk to a lot of 45-70 shooters you'll find that few get this type of groups, simply because they don't understand the principles of mandatory precision.