trigger job

[zoner]

i've been reading the info in FAQ by Raynor and Perklo and noticed they differ slightly....one recommends trimming the trigger return spring, the other doesn't.....and it appears by the photos that they recommend honing the tip of the trigger itself at slightly different angles....it would seem to me that if you can get the pull weight you want without altering the trigger return spring that would be the better deal but i am no expert...i'm hoping you guys with more experience than moi can help me...i have a sb2 hornet I want to get down to 3 lbs and a '79 vintage Topper frame that i'd like to get to around 4 lbs....just wondering which methods have worked best for you guys

[cwlongshot]

I would suggest AGAINST cutting springs. Unless you have a spare. Doing so on a hammer spring can result in inconsistent hammer strikes and misfires. On others inconsistent sear engagement.

 As to the different angles, there is only one angle and that is determined by the mating surface of the hammer and sear. If you are of experience and can understand the properties. its very possible to alter angles for better result. Most are NOT so inept. The angles must remain true and square to each other. If they are not, your result will not "hold". Because as the parts wear, they become true and the result will be an ever changing pull weight. By polishing the contact points, you reduse friction, this inturn reduces weight and the resistance felt. The resistance is called creep. A heavy pull is ENTIRELY workable if its clean and creep free.
 
I like to remove as little material as possible and smooth everything that touches something else.

Good luck, I hope this explains more than confuses.

CW

[quickdtoo]

I always remove a coil off of the trigger spring, have never had a problem with it. If you place the trigger and hammer pins in their respective holes on the outside of the frame with the trigger and hammer on their respective pins, you can see the surfaces that work together very plainly and will know exactly where the friction points are to work on. 

Tim

[zoner]

thanks guys...did my topper today and it came out perfect...now the sb2 needs just a littttle polishing

[Fred M]

I agree with Tim. There is no problem reducing the power of the trigger return spring. All that spring has to do is returning the trigger and the sear into the hammer notch. One coil or a bit more will work wonders during follow through besides it reduces the the trigger pull weight a few ounces. I consider it a part of reducing the pull weight, when doing a trigger job.

[zoner]

thanks for the input guys

[Russ Jerome]

Triming the spring also removes some of the gritty feel, the
trigger does not squarely push on the trigger it slides against
it as it travels. If you trim it place your cut end in the pocket
and polish/lube the exposed end as well as polish the backside
of the trigger were it meets the spring.

[Slufoot]

Most adjustable triggers when you adjust the pull weight all you are doing is taking tension off the trigger return spring.

I took a coil off my trigger return spring when I did my trigger job and it turned out great!

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

[cwlongshot]

Fred M. & Tim excluded, because I am quite certain they understand, but may others don't. Trim the wrong place or spring or too much of that spring and with out knowledge to fix it or spare parts on hand your gun is out of commission.

 Russ,
 Trimming a spring to remove "grit" is just such a statement, that worries me. (I think I know your actual meaning.) The "grit" your feeling is from an unpolished surface, not the weight of a given spring. Yes, a spring of less weight will push less, causing less drag on a rough surface, but first smooth that surface and it wont matter the weight of the spring in relation to the drag felt. That is not any way to "improve" a trigger.
 Like I said in my first post, even a heavy trigger is completely manageable if it breaks clean with no creep. You remove creep by smoothing the bearing surfaces, not simply cutting springs.

I mentioned people knowing. Well what the layman doesn't know, the experienced guy does. In the Handi class of firearms, springs are usually heavier than they need be for many reasons. They over come dirty actions by being stronger, work better in adverse conditions and over come small discrepancies of the parts they control. Now clean, de-burr and smooth those parts and a lighter spring can prove beneficial. Just cutting the spring without the cleaning, deburing and smoothing and it will likely not do what you expect.

CW

[STUMPJMPR]

I have always used a Dremel tool with a felt bob and semi-chrome polishing compound... Some people call me crazy for using it instead of a stone but I find it works very well.... It doesn't change the shape of the part very much at all... Mostly it just removes the microscopic burrs left from machining.... You can work it smooth or to a mirror polish in just a few minutes... Just work slowly and keep reassembling and testing.... As far as spring weights go I found they have little bearing on trigger pull... Most of the springs are very light it is the burrs on the parts that make the trigger so hard....

[Slufoot]

You remove creep by smoothing the bearing surfaces, not simply cutting springs.

Hello CW, the creep in a trigger system isn't removed by smoothing the bearing surfaces.
Creep comes from too much sear engagement. No matter how smooth you get the bearing surfaces if you have too much sear engagement you will have creep in your trigger system.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

[cwlongshot]

You remove creep by smoothing the bearing surfaces, not simply cutting springs.

Hello CW, the creep in a trigger system isn't removed by smoothing the bearing surfaces.
Creep comes from too much sear engagement. No matter how smooth you get the bearing surfaces if you have too much sear engagement you will have creep in your trigger system.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

 While I agree with you, about too much sear engagement. It does NOT have sole ownership to creep. Anything that drags within the fire control assembly will be felt as creep. Smooth the engagement you wont feel the drag/creep. You are absolutely correct thou, there need not be too much engagement at the sear. Again, the quality level of out handis not with standing. This is one of those things that people in the know...know. 

CW

[Russ Jerome]

Russ,
 Trimming a spring to remove "grit" is just such a statement, that worries me. (I think I know your actual meaning.) The "grit" your feeling is from an unpolished surface, not the weight of a given spring. Yes, a spring of less weight will push less, causing less drag on a rough surface, but first smooth that surface and it wont matter the weight of the spring in relation to the drag felt. That is not any way to "improve" a trigger.

I follow your logic 100%, well put. My first Handi trigger job I did not cut the
spring, I followed the instructions in the FAQ area, after the 10th or so assembly
of that trigger I cut the spring on my own for a little less "feel". Keep in mind
I've always owned high end guns like Anschutz pistols/rifles and am picky about
triggers. Im certain a decent trigger job is possible without cutting the spring.

On my most recent Handi trigger job I stumbled on the other FAQ trigger link
and noted the author had cut the spring himself. This trigger job started with
a cut coil and I noticed the the difference as I polished and assmebled this gun
early on. From a mechanical standpoint on the function of the spring I "think"
as long as the trigger returns posotively while the gaurd is held in your hand
I believe if all else works correctly you "should" be good.

As I sit here I am squeazing several triggers, the Anschutz is undoubtably
my favorite but our reworked Handi's are neck and neck with my reworked
Accutriger or my S&W 1500 (Howa) target rifle with Schillen trigger (stock).