Author Topic: can I do this and be safe? (Read 1001 times)

will36 · « **on:** October 12, 2008, 09:23:08 AM »

Ok here is the deal. I have a 7.62x39 H&R barrel on the way. I plan on loading a 308 bullet in a 7.62x39 brass case in a sub sonic confiq. (200 grain/ 10 grains of trail boss seams to be the ticket)

I will also cut the barrel back to 16" and have a suppressor on it.

Ok here is my question. I have a 20 gauge H&R frame. Since this is going to be a pretty low pressure round being sub sonic. so what do the experts say GO / NO GO???

I almost have my suppressed 308 survivor ready for pics. I know you guys want to see it.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #1 on:** October 12, 2008, 09:51:50 AM »

I really wouldn't. For one thing the load you mention may not be such low pressure as you seem to think. Don't confuse low velocity with low pressure, a 200 grain bullet in that small capacity case may run up more pressure than you think. Then there is always some chance the gun may end up in the hands of someone who doesn't understand it's limitations. It's going to cost a bunch to get a suppressor on that barrel and to get it registered, why scrimp on the frame?

will36 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 12, 2008, 10:15:50 AM »

I already have the suppressor and I didnt think about the pressure like that. I guess Ill just fit it to the 308 survivor. You know how you can get a hair brain idea on a lazy sunday morning .

I got a Acog scope for the 308 but may put it on the 7.62 x39 barrel and get a target scope for the 308.

I can then have a long and short range suppressed platform. AKA red neck James bond brief case take down sniper rifle. hahahaha

petemi · « **Reply #3 on:** October 12, 2008, 10:39:04 AM »

I agree, don't cut corners and go with a late SB-2 frame and you're good to go for any reasonable load you choose. As mentioned, anyone after you will be safe too. Guns have a way of outliving people.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** October 12, 2008, 11:38:58 AM »

I agree, not a good idea. $:-\$ The lowest start pressure for the 7.62x39 listed by Hodgdon is about 30kcup with most loads starting at 32-33kcup. Max shotgun pressures on the other hand are 14kpsi. Frames strength is just part of the issue, the larger firing pin and surrounding hole is an issue by itself. The 2008 SB1 357mag and 44mag frames have small firing pins same as SB2 frames, so they get away with it. But as has been mentioned, someone else could end up using it with full pressure loads which run up to 45kpsi.

Tim

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/saami_pressures.htm

45-70.gov · « **Reply #5 on:** October 12, 2008, 11:50:10 AM »

i just got a price on my H&R suppressed balled

in the sceem of things the better receiver is a low cost option

petemi · « **Reply #6 on:** October 12, 2008, 12:05:41 PM »

I guess I'm just an ignorant backwoods farmer, but I have a question. Why does everybody, seems like California people to an extent, need to have a suppressor???

. If you hit what you're shooting at, it doesn't hear the shot. If you're legally shooting, who cares who hears the shot? Someone explain, please. Thanks, Pete

Haywire Haywood · « **Reply #7 on:** October 12, 2008, 12:41:12 PM »

It's nice to be able to shoot without having plugs shoved in your ears and you can shoot without disturbing the neighbors or the wife or the sleeping baby or or or... I don't have a silencer but I do see the uses.

Ian

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #8 on:** October 12, 2008, 12:44:44 PM »

I guess a joke is the best way to answer it.
New Jersey has the most toxic waste dumps and CA has the most lawyers. Do you know why?

?
New Jersey had first pick.
People here in Ca have moved into a house on the flight path to LAX and after saying what good deal they got on the house tried to sue to get the flight path moved. Or to get LAX to stop flights after 8PM. That's right they knew there was an airport there when they moved in and they are such children here they think they should get their way.
If you have a small range set up in your yard and can shoot safely all your neighbors will freak out if they hear shots. Heck we had a parade of cars scream down the street I live on and all pulled up to a house that is being built. All police piled out of thier cars with shotguns and handguns drawn to scare the constructiin crew to death that were firing red heads into concrete after our lawyer neighbors called the police with shots fired at the new house.

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 12, 2008, 01:16:19 PM »

The shooting does not bother me, but does the neighbors. When I first moved out here (1976); I could shoot to the south (big hill and a mile to the next road. I could shoot to the West, again a big hill an no one for 1/2 mile. Now they have crowed right up to the back side of the hills so it is still safe to shoot, but the gun shots disturbs them. There are more and more neighbors all the time. I can see my shooting days going away here. I do not have a suppressor but I sure can see the nicety of having one. My bother in Law brought out several friends to his dads farm, just 1/4 down the road from me to the East. I shoot single shots and such, relatively slow firing stuff and for the most part not real loud. They brought several semi automatics and they started firing in an old barn hill. It sounded like world war 3 broke out it did not bother me). Well they got turned in. The cops showed up and said they were disturbing the neighbors 1/2 mile away. They also said that they were doing nothing wrong and were being safe, but for the sake of their neighbors wrath, to please stop it, so they did. They have not been back since because of the noise going on. The funny thing is I also have a neighbor that has a few acres and he runs dirt bikes every week end. Talk about noisy, but that is OK. Noise disturbs people and when they think about bullets going God knows where even when safe; they get upset. If they did not know there were any shooting going on; then no problem.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #10 on:** October 12, 2008, 01:40:09 PM »

I've broken in the neighbors by inviting them to help shoot the cannon (or mortar) with blanks on the 4th of July.

Some of the reaction to noise and the supression of it is cultural. There are places that REQUIRE sound reduction (read suppressor) so as to limit hearing damage. We in the US often equate something that we're not acustomed to with evil intent - do we not?

petemi · « **Reply #11 on:** October 12, 2008, 02:53:23 PM »

Quite a few years ago now, I picked a quiet, windless early morning to sight in a rifle. Probably 6 a.m. After I shot a while a sheriff's deputy pullled in the drive of the closest house about a quarer of a mile down the road and a few minutes later pulled in mine. The deputy turned out to be a neighbor and a friend. I said, "Daryl, come on in for a cup of coffee". Then, "What's the problem." Neighbors complained about my shooting. I said, "I'm on my own land, more than a half hour after sunrise, not within 400 feet of an occupied dwelling, shooting at a clearly defined target.......What's the problem?" He said, No problem, lets have that coffee.

If your neighbors are that close, you're probably not legal shooting supressor or not. If you are legal, just do it. The people who complain are the same ones running the dirt bikes, jet skis and snow machines.

will36 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 12, 2008, 03:20:12 PM »

In most European countries you have to have a suppressor. You can purchase them at a hardware store or gun shop. I'm in the middle of 89 acres in the river bottoms. I like to shoot suppressed because I can shot anytime I like with out freaking out my doberman,wife , kids, ect. There are also nights I get woke up to my dobermans having it out with a coon or a 'pussum in the yard. Its nice to be able to shoot the intruder and shut the dogs up without waking everyone in the house.

If you ever hunted squirrels with a suppressed 22 you would shoot nothing else.

They also reduce recoil by at least 40% (personal exp.)

I guess the only drawback is the negative comments by Elmer Fuds at the gun range. Then when I let them have some trigger time they usually do a 360. I have helped my buddy sell several suppressors.

will36 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 12, 2008, 03:26:21 PM »

Quote from: 45-70.gov on October 12, 2008, 11:50:10 AM

i just got a price on my H&R suppressed balled

in the sceem of things the better receiver is a low cost option

Did you give my buddy a call? Anyone who can build a suppressor to work on a 50 cal.bmg can build you anything your heart desires.

wtroger · « **Reply #14 on:** October 12, 2008, 04:05:52 PM »

What you are talking about here is a poor mans whisper. My son and I have experimented with this exact round Do some web searching, there is some more info on this round. But I will warn you now that what you are planning on can be very dangerous. These very light loads of fast shotgun powder can detonate causing some very extreme pressures. We used red dot powder and enlarged the primer hole. Very small increments make a VERY LARGE DIFFERENCE. And keeping the velocity below roughly 1000 FPS is truly difficult. We where using a mauser action and did see some pressure problems. I wouldn't bank on a Handi standing up to a sharp pressure rise that can be seen in this round. That being said I would use nothing but a SB-2 frame.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #15 on:** October 12, 2008, 04:21:27 PM »

yes i called.....the price was fair....tax time now told him probly after the 1st of next year

better get it before OSAMA gets in also want an AR-10 before he outlaws them too

if not i wiil work up some other quiet loads for the 500 smith rifle

45-70.gov · « **Reply #16 on:** October 12, 2008, 04:24:05 PM »

i am thinking 44 mag with 280g wfn from LBT for suppressor my favorite...any other suggestions

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #17 on:** October 12, 2008, 04:29:02 PM »

Quote from: mcwoodduck on October 12, 2008, 12:44:44 PM

I guess a joke is the best way to answer it.
New Jersey has the most toxic waste dumps and CA has the most lawyers. Do you know why??
New Jersey had first pick.
People here in Ca have moved into a house on the flight path to LAX and after saying what good deal they got on the house tried to sue to get the flight path moved. Or to get LAX to stop flights after 8PM. That's right they knew there was an airport there when they moved in and they are such children here they think they should get their way.
If you have a small range set up in your yard and can shoot safely all your neighbors will freak out if they hear shots. Heck we had a parade of cars scream down the street I live on and all pulled up to a house that is being built. All police piled out of thier cars with shotguns and handguns drawn to scare the constructiin crew to death that were firing red heads into concrete after our lawyer neighbors called the police with shots fired at the new house.

Thats funny. I had a simular thing happen to me back about 12 years ago. We were building an adition and I was shooting some 2x4'S to the concrete with the Ramset. This old black woman ( that lived next door ) stuck her head out the window yelling WHO YOU SHOOTING AT?

? I'SS GOING TO CALL THE POLICE. Dale

will36 · « **Reply #18 on:** October 12, 2008, 05:23:34 PM »

Quote from: 45-70.gov on October 12, 2008, 04:24:05 PM

i am thinking 44 mag with 280g wfn from LBT for suppressor my favorite...any other suggestions

He can make any caliber your heart desires. I chose his stainless full auto rated can in 30 caliber.

I can shoot up to a 300 magnum out of it. so I can go from 762x39 to 300 mag. I can also shoot the newer 6.5 and 6.8 calibers. Looking at the 6.5 grendal AK conversion he does.

caliber size is something you want to look into. a 45 caliber can you could shoot a lot of pistol calibers out of it also.

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #19 on:** October 12, 2008, 06:08:52 PM »

A quiet 500? Sounds about as likely as an honest government now a days. DP

coyotejoe · « **Reply #20 on:** October 13, 2008, 05:08:50 AM »

Actually, with small charges of fast burning powder producing subsonic velocities a big bore can be very quiet because the gas pressure has dropped to about nil by the time the bullet exits the muzzle. A long barrel helps for the same reason. But a case of smaller capacity would be better, again for the same reason of gaining a larger expansion ratio.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #21 on:** October 13, 2008, 05:19:10 AM »

on my quiet 44 [280g] and 357 [180g] i seat as deep as posible crimp
crimp on nose taper to reduce case and to idendify impressive on small game..rainbow trajectory

some times use special cases also

just got the 500 but 440g even subsonic should be awsome

ironglow · « **Reply #22 on:** October 13, 2008, 05:37:50 AM »

Will36;
Frankly, even if the pressure in your low pressure loads were safe, I would not get in the habit of using a centerfire rifle barrel on a shotgun stock. Despite all the best intentions, rounds COULD get mixed in your cartridge carrier...and you know.."Murphy's Law".