357 Max Preliminary report

[LaOtto222]

Well I finally got off my rump and reamed my 357 to a Max. All of the talk about not getting brass, got me going. First I had to see if I could get some brass. I got 400 and I had 150 on hand. I figured that was enough to make the plunge. If in the future, I cannot get any brass for it, I can go 35 Remington or 357 Herret. I got the reamer from 4-D yesterday and got it reamed before I went to bed (7:00). Today, after work, I mounted a 2.5X Tasco Shot Gun scope and loaded up a few preliminary rounds to see how it would do. The 200 grain Remingtons averaged 1998 fps for 6 shots. I wasted a couple getting it sighted in. I could not see a bullet hole even though they are .357" with the 2.5 X so I had to make a shot and walk down to the target to check it out after each shot. I saved the last three and shot three in a row. They were vertically strung 2" at 50 yards. They were in a line up and down with the bullet holes over lapping about 1/2 bullet diameter if they were not strung. Next up was 180 XTP's I got a 2142 fps average for 5 shots. I put two real close (over lapping) and one about 2" - 2.5" away at 50 yards. Just for grins, I loaded up some 125 Remington semi-jacketed. I got a 2315 fps average for 6 shots. The last three shots were just like the 200 grain Remingtons - vertically strung 2" in a line close enough to over lap the holes. They shot about 6" higher than the heavier bullets at 50 yards. These were not even close to a top load. The 180 XTP and the 200 Remingtons were close to the same point of aim. There did not seem to be any pressure problems. The cases were not bulged (good chamber) and the primers were not even close to being flattened; they were well rounded with out sign of a flat spot at all. The velocity I was getting is in the ball park or a little low for the loads I used. What did I learn? I have some more work to do, but am very encouraged with the preliminary results. I am going to load up some more and pay more attention to shutting force, making sure the shelf is dry and try my best to hold the same from one shot to the next. I feel that the Remington 200's are going to shoot real well and the Remington 125 are going to too. If I get the vertical stringing stopped; it looks like I will be able to get 1 hole 3 shot groups at 50 yards and be well under 1" at 100 yards. The 125's will make a great varmint load and the 200's a good deer load. I want to try some other bullets as well like the Speer 180 and the Hornady 180 SSP. Just to try them out I had some 357's on hand with 125 Remingtons that I tried too. I was not impressed at all - large groups. They are loaded hot, maybe too hot. I will have to try again with some that are not loaded up so hot and some 158 grain bullets too. i have some lead 38 specials but did not get a chance to try them out, maybe the next time.

[LaOtto222]

I went back out and pulled the targets. I lied a little above. The vertical were not as vertically strung as much as I reported above, but a little wider. Makes a difference when you actually measure instead of estimating then working from memory. All of them did better than I reported above. I also included a picture of the rifle. I am expecting very good things in the near future.

200 Remington Round Nose


180 XTP


125 Remington Semi-Jacketed


Getting there

[Troyboy]

It's always real sastifying to try out your Handi work. Nice smoke pole you got there.

                                                      Troy

[LaOtto222]

Thank You Troy. I think I can do much better. I just threw some loads together real quick and slipped out the door to try them. I was more concerned about watching pressure levels and the velocities I was getting, just trying to get an idea of where I was at. I think I can do much better, and only with a 2.5X scope too. I tried to fit a 2X7 Banner on it, but the mounts I had just would not let it happen.

[cwlongshot]

GOOD JOB!!

 My Maxi really perked up once I found what it liked. I ended up using 1680 powder and the Hornady SSP bullet.

I found the SSP to be a bit fragile for the shoulder/base of the neck shots I like. So I switched to the 180 SPEER FP. I got better results on game and only a tad less in the accuracy dept. Then SPEER came out with teh Gold Dot 170gr SP bullet. I had seen the excellent performance form the 270gr GD SP in the 44 mag and hoped for the same from the 357. It shoots very well, penetrates as I need and performs very well. Its only taken a couple deer, but I like it.

 A for your stringing, where are you holding the for-end? I mean is it rested and is it free floating? I like to rest the for-end as close to the "hinge" as I can and free float the for-end. I have found vertical stringing is generally a for-end or latch engagement problem.

 Rifle look great!!  I used to use that scope and set up, I liked it allot, no hammer clearance problems and you could keep it tight to the barrel. The poor clarity and lo-power keep me buying conventional scopes now.

 Good luck,
 CW

[stimpylu32]

LaOtto

Looking good their buddy , with that 2x scope its like iron sight only without the blade , so at 50 thats not too shabby . I'm still not sure what to do with my 357 barrel , it shoots so well as a Mag I'm almost afraid to do anything with it . 

Those 125's look great , what kind of speed were you getting with them ?

stimpy

[LaOtto222]

cwlongshot - As you can probably tell I am excited about my results for just throwing some loads together and pulling the trigger. I was resting the fore arm on the bags, about where the screw is or a little in front of it. I am aware that it can cause issues with vertical stringing, but If I am in the field, I will probably rest it there. So I thought I better zero it in there also. I do get a very good lock up (factory fitted), hopefully that will help prevent those kind of problems. I think I may have latch issues. I was not real diligent in cleaning the oil off the latch and I was not paying a whole lot of attention to the snap for lock up. The fore end has been pillar bedded and is dedicated to this barrel. Some times a load that is too weak or too strong can cause vertical stringing to, but not to this extent most times. I have a couple of pounds of 1680 coming, it looks like it might be good not only for the Max, but maybe my 22 Hornets and 221 FireBalls. It is not here yet, but should be in about another week. I used Lil'Gun for the the heavier bullets and W296 for the 125 bullets. As mentioned, I have thought about the Speer 180's. I wondered if I used the Hornady 180 SSP, how my seater die would treat them. What about the Hornady 180 SP? What kind of velocity are you getting? Have you tried any 200 grain bullets? I have lots of data, but for handguns, not rifles, so I do not know what to expect.

[LaOtto222]

Richard - My average for 6 shots (all I had) was 2315 fps. I used 28 grains of W296 and a Remington 7 1/2 primer and a good crimp. They sure did not look like they were seeing very high pressure at all, I was getting streaking down the side and the primers were very rounded. I was not getting as high velocity as the books with 14" barrels, so I think I could step it up some.

I could not get my 357 to shoot worth a darn, so I Maxed it. I think I done good.

[LaOtto222]

Richard - I forgot to mention that I made a custom seater for the Remington 125 grain bullets. The one I had would mash down the nose, the lead is pretty soft. Since they are hollow points, I made a "pin" that fits down inside of the hollow point. It works real well on the Hornady XTP bullets and so-so for the Remington 125 and 158 bullets. It some times does not seat them all the way in. It is the variances in the hole. The XTP bullets are very uniform, but the Remingtons are not. I set it up to seat the majority of the bullets and the ones it does not seat all of the way, I adjust it down until they seat too. I does most of them right, I just have a few out of a batch that does not go all the way down. If I narrowed the pin down some, it may fix it. I crimp with a Lee die after I get them all seated correctly.

[cwlongshot]

cwlongshot - As you can probably tell I am excited about my results for just throwing some loads together and pulling the trigger.
1) The fore end has been pillar bedded and is dedicated to this barrel. 
2) I have thought about the Speer 180's.
3) I wondered if I used the Hornady 180 SSP, how my seater die would treat them.
4) What about the Hornady 180 SP?
5) What kind of velocity are you getting?
6) Have you tried any 200 grain bullets?

I LOVE my MAXI as well, its my favorite. I have always held a special love for the 35's in most all flavors.

1) The pillar bedded for-end is a GREAT addition!!  If done correctly will all but eliminate any variances in where you hold the for-end. It can still have an ill effect if resting the for-end on a hard surface. But as long as its resting on a soft surface you will not have any problems.

2) Are you talking about the #2435 that's the 180FP I mentioned? It works wonderfully, I like to shoot for bones. My favorite shot is the base of the neck or high on the shoulder. Every animal I have shot there drops instantly. The vast majority of my shots are with in 100yards so placing the bullet accurately is not such an issue. if I where hunting at longer ranges, say 200+ I would change to center of the lungs broadside. this would also change my idea of a perfect bullet. So these recommendations are based on NE hunting, close with thick cover.

3) Mine works fine, the tip is a bit flattened but it hasn't effected accuracy in the least.

4) Your talking about the old STD 180 SP bullet? I believe it is discontinued. At least Hornady doesn't list it on there site any-longer. I have used them in my 358Win and 35Whelen. But that's at about 2600fps. Out of the Maxi it would probably be OK at close range where the velocities are still high. Overall I would guess its a bit to strongly constructed for across the board Maxi usage. This is for game of coarse.

5) Its been a while since I chronographed them, but I seem to remember 2300 for the 180's. With just under an inch accuracy at 100 yards.

6) Yes, the same Rems as you as well as the Hornady 200Rn's for the 35rem. I haven't shot any game with them. I am sure they would work just fine as we are not really giving up anything in velocity. My .35 Marlin was getting mid 1900's with them and its accounted for many many deer thru the years.

When i got my Maxi in the early '90's I was also heavily into the Contender pistol and carbine. My two favorite calibers where the 357 Herrett and the 357 Maxi. The 180SSP was new and worked wonderfully when I got the Herrett to go off.... That thing gave me fits. I sold the Herrett and bought a 10" 357MAXI barrel. I was in LOVE!! It was as accurate as anyone could want. More than one of my buddies bought one because of shooting mine. About that time we lost our property to hunt in Vermont. So hand gun hunting for me was also gone with it. I began looking for a carbine barrel for the contender. I found the Handi... I still have the Handi and the Contender and all its barrels are long gone...

 Good luck with yours I KNOW YOUR GONNA LOVE IT!!!

 CW

[LaOtto222]

Thanks CW, Good information. I think I will get some of the Speer FP 180's. I wanted to put on that 2X7 Banner I have, I just could not get it mounted, I tried every which way. I think I will just have to order some other mounts. I have one mounted on my 44 Mag barrel, so I know it is possible.

[cwlongshot]

Thanks CW, Good information. I think I will get some of the Speer FP 180's. I wanted to put on that 2X7 Banner I have, I just could not get it mounted, I tried every which way. I think I will just have to order some other mounts. I have one mounted on my 44 Mag barrel, so I know it is possible.

 What was the problem?  By the looks of your pic, you have a Ultra base. Was the scope too long, too short?

I used to like the Weaver 4X4's offset rings before they junked them up.

CW

[LaOtto222]

The rings are going to have to be a little taller, I just could not get it into a position where I could miss the hammer. When I moved it back to miss the hammer, I could not get the front ring into a position where I could get it on the scope. Mediums just will not cut it, I need highs or a medium off set.

[cwlongshot]

I like the Bushnell scopes but they always seem to cause difficulties when mounted on handis....

I had a 3200 for a short time, that one worked OK..but didn't like the exceptionally small field of view, it was also like looking thru a tube. Don't get me wrong, it was plenty clear and an obvious good quality scope, just not up to what I am used to from my Leupold's.

 Maybe you can find or already have a good relationship with a gun shop. That way you can try a couple different sets of rings with/for you. That or just get/use a different scope...

CW

[dpe.ahoy]

The new Simmons seem to work well for me.  Small enough on the backside to mount low, clear, have had no problems with any of the 5 I've owned for a year or more.  Still like the K 2.5s on them as well.  I don't target shoot much so not trying for the 1/4" groups.   DP

[canon6]

Like dpe.ahoy I am using the 2/12 power Simmons scopes for  a 30-30, 357,and a 22.Low easy to use and see.This is my wifes 30-30.     hth   Doug

[cwlongshot]

Like dpe.ahoy I am using the 2/12 power Simmons scopes for  a 30-30, 357,and a 22.Low easy to use and see.This is my wifes 30-30.     hth   Doug

 I was going to add that with this setup there is ZERO hammer clearance issues... only what in the world is your hammer in that pic??

CW

[canon6]

CW, it really is there.That frame is back geting additional barrels or I would take a better picture, oh !!!maybe that is the one and only supersecret hammerless NEF.Yea that is what it is     Doug

[dpe.ahoy]

  Oh, Doug.  DP