.45 ACP bullets in Casull. Experiences?

[SM]

Hello!

Here in Finland the real tough .454 bullets are pretty expensive so I started to look for some alternatives so I could shoot a lot more. I had loaded 260 and 300 grain bullets with VV 3N37 and they compared quite well with the factory level .44 magnum rounds. That's how they felt, since I compared them side by side by shooting my 6" inch FA and my friend's 6" .44.

The dedicated .454 of course didn't have any problems handling the medium speed generated by those loads. Yesterday I loaded me a batch by using FMJ .45 ACP bullets and 3N37. Judging by the groups I shot the bullets held up just fine, though the pressures shouldn't be very high and the velocity is probably around 1400 fps or so from the 6" tube.

I want to know if any of you have used .45 ACP bullets in order to load some cheap training ammo and what did you think of it.

P.S. When I ordered my .454 I didn't get a dedicated .45 ACP or .45 LC cylinder because I had read that it would be possible to load some pretty mild loads in the casull brass. I have some U.S. gun magazines with some Taffin's recipes, but the american powders are very expensive around here. That's why I'm cooking up loads by using VV.

[yooper77]

I am in the USA, but I have also loaded 45 ACP, 230 grain FMJ bullets in my 454 Casull brass using AA#5 powder.

These loads were very mild, but produced high velocity.  I had these bullets on hand, so I gave them a try since I didn't have a 45 ACP yet.

The only problem is in a revolver there isn't anyplace to crimp these bullets, so if you load them too hot they can jump and lock the cylinder.  Keep them mild.

I now currently reload 45 ACP, 45 Colt and 454 Casull and I use bullets well suited for each.

yooper77

[Graybeard]

When you start pushing soft bullets way beyond their design speed you risk ruining your revolver. Many FA revolvers have been returned with cracked and otherwise fractured forcing cones and at least one with the barrel split full length from shooting soft bullets way beyond their designed velocity window.

If you wish to shoot those softer bullets designed for use at much slower velocity then keep them closer to their design velocity.

[SM]

Thank you for the responses!

I'll chrono the loads when I get the chance, so I'll know what velocities I'm getting excactly. I didn't basically crimp the bullets, atleast not in the way I do with the heavier loads, but the loads were so soft that there was no problems concerning that.

I tried another load by adding up some powder (VV N320) to the 230 FMJ load for .45 Long Colt from Vihtavuori manual. Those were very soft! I bet when I chrono the ammo, it'll be about 1000 -1100 fps. That should be slow enough to prevent any damage to the gun. I don't want to harm my finest firearm in any circumstances, so I appreciate the warning very much!

Many people in the U.S. (that's what I've read) have loaded soft loads for their .454's by adding a little powder to the amount used in .45 Colts, so I did the same thing. In my understanding, there's very little difference in the the case capacity of the the casings, so this shouldn't be dangerous. Is my logic flawed?

BTW, the bullets are rated to withstand pretty high velocities (by the Finnish importer) and their jacket seems to be quite strong. I dug out some bullets from the backstop at the range and the bullet's bases didn't look too bad. Can you tell about the signs that I should look for when the bullets aren't up to the task?

I will not be trying to get as much velocity as I can out of these ACP bullets; I'll load the N110 etc. loads with real .454 bullets. I just want to find some inexpensive AND SAFE paper punching loads.

[SM]

Well, today I went to the range and chronoed several loads including the two new light ones. The lighter load with the 230 FMJ ACP bullet is doing pretty much like a .45 ACP; average velocity was 940 fps. The other load, by adjusting the amount of VV 3N37 to the 5 grains heavier bullet (from the Vihtavuori manual), shot an average of 1302 fps, which is not super fast either. Interestingly, the faster load was a bit more accurate.

The FA home page warns the user not to go over 1400 fps with the softer bullets. I think that the 1300 fps is as fast as I'm willing to load those ACP bullets, even though they seem to hold up fine. I would load it down a bit, but it's already a starting load and I don't dare to put any less powder in the case.

As I said, I also shot a number of other loads as well. What suprised me was the low velocity I was getting with my H110 loads. 31 grains under a 300 grain Sierra Sportsmaster gave an average of only 1557 fps. I got similar velocities with a starting load of VV N110 (same everything except for the powder: same brand case, same bullet, same primer, same overall length). I guess the H110 suffers a bit more when it's shot in a shorter (in this case 6 inch) barrel. The H110 is very expensive in Finland compared to the N110 and I bought a jug hoping to get the a little more energy. This was done mostly just for testing purposes...When one gets a big boomer like a .454, it's almost mandatory to find out what those heavy loads feel like   

[Graybeard]

Stay within the guidelines listed on the FA site and you should do fine. I'm not sure what velocity the 230 fmj bullets are designed to handle but in an ACP they'd normally be doing at most about 850 fps so to me 1300+ is a pretty large jump over the expected velocity for them in the round for which they are made.

One of my favorite .454 Casull loads uses the Lyman 452651 bullet which is supposed to drop about 325 grains but with my hard alloy usually weights about 318 grains gas checked and lubed. I push them with H110/W296 to 1550 fps. I hesitate to give the powder charge and for sure do NOT use it as a load recommendation as it is from memory not from looking back at my recorded data but I think I used about 32 grains as best as I can recall.

That's not excactly a mild load but is certainly not a hot one either. That bullet at that velocity shoots flat enough and is heavy enough to do anything I'd ever consider doing with a handgun. It's extremely accurate also.