handgun recoil and the public range

[yorketransport]

I was at the public range today testing loads in my 45-70 BFR like I do at least once a month. After a few shots, the range officer taps me on the shoulder and asks if I would please but the gun away. He said that the recoil was excessive and presented a danger to myself and others at the range. He also said that I was free to continue shooting if I could control the recoil better. Not wanting to cause any trouble, or put anyone else at risk, I apologized and put the gun away.

The loads I was shooting are certainly full power loads consisting of 55-58gr of IMR 4198 and a 300gr Hornady HP. But they are hardly anything that I feel put myself or anyone else in danger. And as far as recoil goes, they are significantly less than my heavy load using 45gr of IMR 4198 and a 440gr CP LFNGC.

In 6 years of coming to this range, with this range officer, and a variety of heavy caliber handguns, this is the first time that anyone has asked me to stop shooting for safety reasons. I'm just curious if this has ever happened to anyone else. Particularly to people shooting any of the big 50cal handguns or large caliber single shot pistols.

Andrew

[30hrrtt]

WOW  Politically correct recoil.  OK

[David Carey]

I was asked once to stop shooting at an outdoor range, because the blast coming out in front of the cylinder bothered the guy two benches over. There was no one at either bench beside me. I put it away and have never gone back.

Dave

[yorketransport]

I've had complaints about the noise as well. I usually point out that the guys with an 18" barreled, muzzle braked assault rifle are much louder than any of my handguns. That typically get people to back down a bit.

[Ken ONeill]

No, I haven't had it happen to me. However, I will mention that the International Handgun Metallic Silhouette Association (IHMSA) implemented a rule nearly 30 years ago (Jeez, am I that old ?) that prohibits firing a handgun in a match if the recoil causes the muzzle to rise at an angle greater than 90 degrees from the ground...pointed any bit toward the rear, in other words. With freestyle matches typically shot from the Creedmore position using only one hand on the handgun, it was quite common in the early days to have .44 Magnums in recoil pointing over the shooter's shoulder at his spotter and others. Made some people nervous, justified or not.
If you're shooting off sandbags two handed, that probably isn't happening. Standing ? Who knows ?
In any event, the range officer's always right, whether he is or not.

[yorketransport]

I was using a two hand hold shooting off sandbags. I don't really know of any way to "control" the recoil any better. It seems to me that if I try to fight the gun, I'll either hurt myself or I'll have worse control of the gun.

[Rainwater]

Recently I started using a new glove that has a wrist strap.  The glove is designed for “vibration reduction”, presumably ATV or Motocross type applications.  Think of the wrist strap as a firm ace bandage.  Since my wrist is supported (stiffer), muzzle flip is reduced. 

The glove also has excellent padding for the palm.  A pair cost $25 at Harbor Freight Tools.  I cut the finger tips off the glove. 

[jhalcott]

 Only once was I asked to stop shooting my 45-70 because of the blast. I said OK and got out my 358 jdj(Braked) and fired 3 shots. The complainer asked me POLITELY, to go back to the other gun. I have seen guys shooting guns that seemed to much for them and it does scare me. You can tell if the recoil is to much if their shots are all over the target and bank. But IF they are keeping the shots in a 2 to 3" group at 50 yards they ARE in control. When using a single shot gun, once the round is fired ,the only danger is the gun leaving the shooters grasp and hitting some one. Though it IS hard to argue with a safety complaint from a Range Officer.

[purplehaze92z28]

Yorke,  I have the 475 linebaugh BFR, recently, due to rain, I took it to an indoor range in Allentown,PA.  Safe to say, I put on a show. I had a crowd four deep at the observation window. The guys working the counter locked out the register to see what all the commotion was about.  After my session he thanked me for shooting there, as people that were on the way out the door heard the roar if the Linebaugh, and came back in to watch my 45 minute session. Recoil really mystifies people I guess.

[yorketransport]

I've always used group size as a rough indicator of my control of the gun. In this case the groups were nice clean 5 shot clusters with all shots touching at 25yds. I was about to move out to 50yds when it was put to a stop.

This whole thing just reminded me why I don't like shooting at public ranges. Once the snow levels go back up I'll just go back to doing all of my shooting at the 200yd range I have setup in the woods.

[jhalcott]

  I took a couple guns to an indoor range once. The cllerk knew me and said I couldn't shoot there. He was afraid of target or "other" damage being done by MY Hand Cannons. I let him see the 40S&W and 45 acp I had packed and he apologized and let me shoot. The owner asked why he'd stopped me at first. The owner and I have went to MY range since then and shot some really big hand guns. The owner said he was not allowed to let any thing more powerfull than a .44 mag REVOLVER be shot due to insurance risks.

[corbanzo]

I've never been to a gun range, and I will never go to a gun range.  All the above reasons are why.  People.

That is why I like to do my shooting right out in the middle of nowhere.  - About a mile from my house. 

[yorketransport]

I wish I lived somewhere close to a safe shooting spot. At the moment, it takes me almost an hour and a half to get into the woods to do any shooting. That will all change if I get the house I'm bidding on. While it doesn't have the property to shoot on site, it's only 10 minutes from somewhere that I can shoot. The only problem is that I'm caught in a bidding war with someone who appears to want the house more than I do.

[Sweetwater]

Nearly 20 years ago I was Rangemaster at our public range for a few years. Never had the incident that you are sharing, but there were incidents of guns going off before on target. And, yes, the Rangemaster is always right, even when their wrong. And hopefully tactful. We lived where impromptu shooting was available basically anywhere. SW Wyoming. Every canyon and draw was a viable range. Since then we've lived in San Diego (an hour plus to any open shooting area) and now in North Idaho (where private property signs seem to be the crop of choice - they are definitly growing!) Fortunately, I have a buddy with a range in his backyard - I am soooo jealous!!!

Good luck on the house bidding. It is a war.

Regards,
Sweetwater

[Mohawk]

  Wow, those are some strict rangemasters. Can't imagine if they had to deal with the climb of submachine guns from their guests on the range.  We had guests shoot plenty of .50 AE and .50 Beowulf rounds and we thought it was entertaining feeling the shock wave as we stood behind the shooter. And our range was indoors. With proper hearing protection the recoil or noise should be no issue, IMHO.

[rickyp]

You should have asked the range master what he bases his thoughts that the load is unsafe. let him explain it to you and if he is right in his concerns then put it a way but if he is wrong let him know he is wrong.

He may have not known any better.

[SingleShotShorty]

Never heard such a thing we have shot 454 Casulls, hot 44 mags, 458 win mags etc at our range and have never had the Rangemaster tell us not to shoot them. The only thing he does not allow is a Barrett 50cal as he doesn't have the distance to really shoot them.

[yorketransport]

I really thought that there would be more people that this has happened to. Especially with all of the 500 and 460 Smiths out there. 

Now if it had been an indoor range I would understand. I know that the bigger calibers are hard on the backstop.  But since this was an outdoor handgun/rifle range it shouldn't matter. Besides, after I put away the 45-70 handgun I took out the 450 Marlin and 375 Ruger rifles. I guess I'll just have to "step down" to a 500 Smith or some other range friendly caliber.

[RANGER RICK]

My buddy and I went to our one and only outdoor range a few years ago to do a little shooting .
As we were setting up the rang master comes over to make sure we had all the proper safety gear and asked what the Hell is that revolver .
I told him it was the new 500 S&W and mine was the big one PC Hunter 10.5 .
I had put five down the range at 100 Yards and I noticed all booths beside me both left and right are no longer shooting and some are cleaning off their benches .
I guess the shock wave was knocking down all sorts of dirt and debris from the over head shelters and onto their tables . Some had smiles and others were visibly upset with me .
I ended up letting a few of the shooters put 75 rounds down range and the Range master asked if I was coming back soon and I asked why He said he would like to shoot the revolver when he was not the Range master , He shot it the following week .

On a side note the guys that were a little upset with me for all the noise and shock waves were really upset when we brought our 50-140 and 45-120 out to shoot   

RR

[Lloyd Smale]

had some yuppie skeet shooters in there fancy golfin clothes once ask me to quit shooting my linebaughs as it was bothering them while they were shooting there skeets. In typical yuppie fashion they came as a mob instead of one man. I think it was because they thought i was nuts. I asked them nicely if they were shooting an organized match as id hate to mess up someones scores if they were competeing. they said no that it was practice. I then suggested they buy a portable thrower and go find a field, then looked at the ring leader and told him it might be adviseable that he put in his ear plugs and turned around and proceded to shoot. They stood there slack jawed for a couple minutes and then coward away. guess they didnt want to get there tweed shooting jackets dirty. I went in the bar later and the rangemaster who i got to know pretty well came up to me and told me they went running and crying to him about it and he told them that i had just as much right to shoot as they did and they were no more improtant then i was. This all happened back when i was dating my wife. She lived in a differnt town and I joined that club because id spend the weekends there and would be bored out of my mind and needed a place to shoot a couple hours a day. Sure is nice now that i dont have to leave my private range. ONLY jerk there is ME!! tell you what. If some range officer or owner told me that his insurance would only allow 44 mags or smaller on the range. Id take out a 100 dollar bill and tell him it was his if he could show me that in print. I doubt theres an insurance policy writer that knows the differnce in a 454 casul and a 454 chevy

[Mikey]

The only restrictions we have on the pistol and rifle ranges at the club where I shoot is on rapid fire.  Our club management began getting really whizzed at having uncontrolled rapid fire shoot holes in the trees that set about 10 yds above ground level at the ranges (that's almost a 35 degree max range elevation). 

Lots of guys with lots of rapid fire stuff just not controlling their firearms or letting some youngster pull the trigger as fast as they can without even having the gun on target.  There are homes and businesses that are slightly more than a mile away but yet these folks were creating a real hazard - so, management go involved and now we control our activities somewhat more responsibly. 

I have not been a range monster in a long while but I have had to address safety issues with other range members - it is one of our club membership responsibilities.  I have seen range masters fail to use common sense almost as badly as I have seen some club members fail to use common sense but honestly, a single shot pistol or revolver in full recoil is not going to discharge itself (all by itself) again ('specially if it's outta ammo) when it's hangin' off your right ear.  Had I been the range monster at your range i just would have made certain you were wearing something to protect your noggin from gettin' 'recoiled' on by your own barrel and then having the range sued for not having stricter 'gun control' regulations on the books. 

I've been on the range when guys have driven up, in a rush, bailing out of the car saying - hey, can I shoot, I've got only 15 minutes before I have to get back to work; then quickly set up a target, blast off a couple of magazines worth of practice ammo, check out the target and say 'yeah, that's puttin' 'em in there (4 square hits out of 2 14 round mags), reload the mags with different ammo, holster the gun and boogy.  I just reload the empties.............. Mikey.

[yorketransport]

I agree that it would be difficult to get a single action revolver to discharge itself during recoil. I remember hearing about problems with people inadvertently doubling the 500 S&W when it first came out. I don't remember the details but it seems like during recoil they were pulling the trigger and firing a second shot double action.

One problem I run into frequently at this range involves my "experience" level. Being a fair bit younger than all of the regulars at the club (I'm 26), I get a lot of people asking if i can handle whatever gun I'm shooting. I get this with most handguns over 41mag and rifles up through 458 WM. While I may not be the best shot out there, I feel like I can hold my own against the average shooter with any of my guns. And I've done just that a number of times at this range. I guess this whole thing could be a case of the range officer protecting me from myself.

[JD HHI 6092®]

If there was no sign saying a maximum caliber and still wanted me to put my guns away, I would have asked for my money back.  I've been to a few ranges that have maximum calibers posted they are put somewhere you can see them before paying.

[SharonAnne]

the range i went to had .50BMG rifles and machine guns. one restriction on machine guns-not on sunday. Can't imagine an RO claiming someone elses recoil is too much, UNLESS it appeared they were about to lose grip on the pistol.

.50BMGs were asked to move to the far end of the tables because of muzzle blast, but were never told they couldn't shoot.

[torpedoman]

makes me really glad that i have my own range out back it is only 178 yds but i can go next door and shoot from there and it is 300 yds. 20 ft high 20 ft thick berms down both sides and across the back 50 yds wide

[Redhawk1]

I have never had the range master ask me to stop shooting. I shoot a BFR 500 Mag, a 4 inch S&W 500 Mag and a Encore 8 inch 500 Mag with a muzzle break.
I also have a 308 Encore barrel and a BFR in 45-70 and a Ruger in 480 Ruger.

I have had the dirty looks from other shooters. I don't pay them any mind. I pay to shoot just as they do, ear plugs and ear muffs are made for that.
I do however go down the line and let people know I will be shooting a big bore gun and not to be alarmed.

Now if I go into the range and there is one of them guys that is shooting his semi-auto like he was in a shoot out movie, I don't tell him I am shooting a loud gun.
My buddies will sit back and watch him jump when the first round goes off. Funny how much a match man's attitude changes when he jumps like a little girl. lol

Personally I would be a little up-set if the range master ask me to quit shooting, especially when I drove 1 hour to get to the range.

[blhof]

I cleared the outdoor range that I frequent; but with 4 B/p guns all loaded up and fired into 4 closely spaced targets.  It was a calm hazy day and the clouds from the B/p obstructed the target area for a few minutes.  I've since switched to B/p subs, except for my flinter.

[yorketransport]

I haven't been back to the range since that day, and I probably never will go back. The weather has cleared up enough for me to just head out into the woods to do all of my shooting. Plus we got the house that we wanted, and it's about 2 hours from that particular range.

I just can't imagine what would have happened if I had been shooting a larger caliber than the 45-70.  I've been thinking about another BFR in 50 Alaskan. I wonder what sort of trouble that could cause?

[ihuntbucks]

Dang fellars,I never heard of such.Range master,can't shot what you bring.I belong to the local fop and I can use any gun at any time at our range.Most of the time I go I am the only one there.The range is 3 miles from my house...life is good .........Rick