Author Topic: New cylinder without custom fitting?? (Read 1501 times)

Wiking · « **on:** April 06, 2008, 09:02:58 AM »

I seem to recall having read that the changing between cylinders of different guns is not possible, as they are all fitted to each individual gun. However I am not able to find that particular thread.

I'm considering getting an additional .357 cylinder for my M83, does that require the gun being shipped to FA for custom fit, or can it just be ordered fresh from from factory?

I ask because shipping my revolver over the Atlantic would be rather troublesome... so I'm hoping that can be avoided....

Ken ONeill · « **Reply #1 on:** April 06, 2008, 12:05:05 PM »

The revolver must be returned to FA to have another cylinder fitted. Just out of curiosity, why do you want another cylinder?

kennisondan · « **Reply #2 on:** April 06, 2008, 02:44:32 PM »

I understand that arms that are not line bored for accuracy can often interchange cylinder without factory fitting, like a ruger blackhawk.. etc. but the fit is too precise for a line bore gun to accept a non customized fit.
dk

Wiking · « **Reply #3 on:** April 06, 2008, 09:21:41 PM »

And sending them my current cylinder is not gonna cut it either? Don't you think it's gonna be a problem sending it in and out of the US?

Graybeard · « **Reply #4 on:** April 07, 2008, 01:15:29 AM »

I'd not be surprised if it's a real complicated matter to send it back to the US from your country. Dunno what the laws on such would be but you'd have to comply with the laws in both your home country and the US laws.

Again the question why in the world do you want another cylinder for it?

Wiking · « **Reply #5 on:** April 07, 2008, 02:08:42 AM »

Well, as I am on a never-ending quest to find the big bang, I plan to have a machinist drill up the cylinder to fit .44 mag casings. The front of the cylinder have to be conic of course that way it remains a .357 mag. I will then have .44 mag casings neck-sized to fit .38 bullets. That way I can have more velocity without high pressures, and still uphold our caliber restrictions

Ain't that just a marvellous idea??

Graybeard · « **Reply #6 on:** April 07, 2008, 03:00:07 AM »

Well no not really in my opinion but if it makes you happy I guess that's what counts. I think that round would be basically the .357 B&D. I guess I'm not of the mind set that more velocity is always better. With cast bullets it definitely isn't and I guess I don't know why you feel the need for speed but iffen ya do then I reckon that would give it to ya.

Wiking · « **Reply #7 on:** April 07, 2008, 03:24:32 AM »

Well, I obviously can't give you a list of reasons why I need the more velocity - 'cuz frankly I don't. I don't even hunt with it (not allowed). It just because I can't go to the range and shoot a .44 whenever I fell like it. And this project would provide me with something out of the ordinary, something that you do not see every day. And it widens the reloading possibilities of a .357 bringing it to "never-before-seen" levels. I find it exciting when you break from the mainstream.

Graybeard · « **Reply #8 on:** April 07, 2008, 01:17:35 PM »

Then I reckon that's as good a reason as anyone needs for you to do it. Why not just ask Freedom Arms if they will make you up one already chambered to the .357 B&D when they make it up for you.

Ken ONeill · « **Reply #9 on:** April 08, 2008, 02:09:00 AM »

Wiking,
In support of my lifelong belief that two is always better than one (particularly when another handgun might be involved) , here's a thought for you:
My recollection is that your Mdl. 83 is a 4 3/4" barrel model. Model 83 .357's can be hot-rodded a bit. Since you can't own anything larger than a .357, why not get ANOTHER .357 (!) with a 7 1/2" or 9" barrel ! I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the extra barrel length and a bit of judicious, careful, full power loading would approach...maybe exceed... .357 Bain & Davis performance, without potential case set- back problems.
I do realize that this is an expensive proposition, but you could get a Field Grade (with upgraded grips), wouldn't have to go through the hassle of exporting then re-importing your existing gun and doing without it for several months, and can take advantage of converting currency to the presently depressed U.S. dollar valuation, saving a bit more money.
Besides, then you'd have TWO ! Can I rationalize things, or what ?

Wiking · « **Reply #10 on:** April 08, 2008, 03:23:43 AM »

GB - Yeah that would probably be a good idea. But how can I be sure that the percentage which the cylinder has been expanded, is consistent with the possibilities in neck-sizing the casings? Not the best explanation but hope you understand....

Ken - not a bad idea, but (and now you're gonna laugh) the restrictions on guns doesn't stop with the caliber, were not allowed to have handguns with barrel-lengths over 6" and handguns weighing over 3lbs. Its totally silly. Besides, I'm a sucker for recoil, don't know why... I just like it when the gun goes BOOOOM and you feel the power in your hand

)

Ken ONeill · « **Reply #11 on:** April 08, 2008, 11:05:49 AM »

Wiking,
I believe I understand your last comment to Graybeard. The .357 Baine & Davis (or B&D) has been around more than 30 years. Dies are available.

Wiking · « **Reply #12 on:** April 08, 2008, 11:13:31 AM »

Ken - okay great, thanks

22popnsplat · « **Reply #13 on:** April 08, 2008, 02:15:31 PM »

you may want to do some more research , there are problems with using bottle neck cartridges in revolvers .it has been mentioned above but it should be expanded upon . It is a common problem with revolvers that when a bottle neck case is fired in them that the brass expands pushing the shoulder forward and the base of the brass back and causing the cylinder to jam , Is the cylinder long enough to go to a 357 Maximum ? simply a lengthened 357 mag

Graybeard · « **Reply #14 on:** April 08, 2008, 07:02:31 PM »

With the tight tolerances of FA guns if they would make up a .357 B&D cylinder for him I doubt set back would become an issue.

Wiking · « **Reply #15 on:** April 09, 2008, 05:30:39 AM »

The guy from which I got the idea, has had his additional .357 cylinder converted into a B&D. He has a Ruger Blackhawk. He didn't mention any jamming problems or problems with ejecting the casings. Maybe that's only a problem when you really take the loads to maximum.

According to an article from a magazine, when using Hornadys 180gr XTPs and seating the bullet to the bottom crimp groove, the OAL is 1.685". I just found some reload data on the .357 maximum stating the OAL to be 1.9". So my conclusion is that a max cartridge won't in a FA cylinder...

IronAir · « **Reply #16 on:** April 09, 2008, 06:02:38 AM »

I have also heard that bottle neck cases and revolvers do not make a very good combination, but I really don't know. Do these cases headspace off the rim or the shoulder? It seems to me like you are going to have some setback that ties up the cylinder no matter how tight the chamber tolerances are, but maybe not. Like you said, maybe this only becomes a problem with very high pressures.

Another source of information might be Gary Reeder, with his GNR wildcats, he must know a thing or two about this kind of project.

http://www.reedercustomguns.com/information/GNR_cartridges.htm

And...If you are looking for the biggest boom, why stop with the 357 B&D? How about a necked down 475 Linebaugh or 500 Wyoming Express?

Wiking · « **Reply #17 on:** April 09, 2008, 10:36:32 AM »

I'm not positive I know what you mean by rim. But, the cartridges I saw looked more like the one to the left in this picture, than the one on the right. I believe that would make them "shoulder-sized" instead of neck-sized, hmm.....

http://www.reedercustomguns.com/tc/contender_images/Gary_c.jpg

Well, you're right, I probably should aim higher. The reason I consider the .357 B&D, is that due to a reasonable number of .44 Winchesters in Denmark, .44 mag casings are quite accessible. The .475 Linebaugh and the .500 WE are not, since revolvers in these calibers are not allowed, and there is no rifles in these calibers as far as I know. And besides, as casings are reload components for which you usually need a permit, I don't think I could get my hands on .475 or .500 brass!

Graybeard · « **Reply #18 on:** April 09, 2008, 11:52:37 AM »

With your short barrel I don't think you'd gain any performance from the large cases anyway. The FA chambers are counter sunk so the rim fits inside the cylinder. There is an almost infitestimal gap between the cylinder and frame at the back so there just really isn't much room for set back. Reeder does many of them on Rugers with far more gap than the FA has.

I think the idea is work able for sure. I don't see the need personally but then it's not my gun or my money and since you do see the need that's all that's important.

Were I to take a wild guess here I'd predict with your short barrel you'll pick up perhaps 150 fps more velocity and double the muzzle blast and nearly so the recoil. A poor trade off to this old man but as I said it's not my gun or money so if it still turns you on why not call Bob Baker and talk it over with him.

Wiking · « **Reply #19 on:** April 09, 2008, 10:17:09 PM »

"...and double the muzzle blast and nearly so the recoil." - that's sweet music to my ears.

Yeah I think I will talk it over with Bob when the time comes. I'll do some more research first and try to find out if sending the gun in and out of the states is gonna be a huge problem. It's probably gonna last forever I'm afraid.

Steve P · « **Reply #20 on:** April 25, 2008, 09:01:03 AM »

I have had the Bang and Dangit in a contender. It was a shooter, but not to the expectations I expected. I had to stick with the lighter weight bullets. When I went heavier, they tumbled. FA has different rifling, but still a worthwhile concern.

When shooting a bottle neck cartridge in revolver, you can do just fine, until you pump up the velocity. The first shot makes the cartridge back out against the frame. It locks itself in place. The next shot does the same as does the next. If your frame has even the tiniest of flex, each successive shot has brass sticking out .0005 or more. After about the 4th shot, your cylinder will not rotate when cocking the gun. You will have to assist it. If you back off your loads to where this doesn't occur, you are not in a position that is much better than your original 357.

My B&D would not keep up with my 357 Max so I sold it.

There are other options, but case life is short.

Just another log thrown into the fire.........

Steve