Author Topic: Want opinions on purchasing plans  (Read 615 times)

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Offline sseib

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Want opinions on purchasing plans
« on: July 18, 2008, 07:37:45 AM »
Hey All,

I've been lurking for a while and would like input before I purchase another set of plans for a 12 pound mountain howitzer. I am a machinist/designer/programmer with approx 30 years exp. My goal is to build a pair of full scale guns that are acceptable for use in the NSSA with a threaded and pinned steel barrel design for cleaning access and barrel inspection. I would prefer the no-weld method other than for the trunnions. Would a liner still be required for this type construction for the NSSA? Is there anything I should be aware of when scaling cannon barrels and loads as I will build a half scale gun first? ( if you half the dia you cut the area by 75% )

Who has the best detailed drawings?
Who has the best design for threading and pinning the barrel?
Who has the best wheel details?
Are there and step by step plans available for guns, carriages or wheels?

Thanks,
Steve


Offline leesecw

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Re: Want opinions on purchasing plans
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2008, 07:55:08 AM »
Ive got the plans for a mountain howitzer from Antique ordinance publishers that is listed in the stickies. They are very good plans. The webpage listed in the classified stickies is an old one and is off by 4 or 5 bucks. Just call Don Lutz at the ph number and he will give you the full price if you are interested.
If Guns cause crime, then mine are defective...Ted Nugent

Offline Double D

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Re: Want opinions on purchasing plans
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2008, 08:34:07 AM »
Steve welcome to the board.  Glad have you with us. You will find a lot of help with your project. 

For the requirements for cannon use in N-SSA events contact them direct.  They are the only ones who to tell how to make gun to the specifications  If you look at he tpost stuck to the top of our forum--Safe Loads and cannon plans you will find a link to the N-SSA rules.

As mentioned the Antique Ordnance plans are the plans you want.  They are copies of the original drawings.

I have also in the past, the long past,  threaded and pinned breech blocks, I don't think they meet N-SSA safety requirements.  I wil not do any more threaded breeches.

I heard recently from a guy who I built a connon for back in the early 80's--25 years ago.  He is still shooting the gun every 4th of July and New Years.  Over the years from taking the breech plug out for cleaning, the breech plug has got loose and it leaks.  The holes for the cross pin don't line up any more and when aligned the cross pins is no longer tight.  The breech plug was designed to seat tight against a seat in the barrrel at the back of the bore. The was a small relief between cascable reinforce and and the back of the barrel. That relief or gap is now gone.   This gun was bult from 4140 and I don't believe the guy has fired any thing in it but blanks. 

I suggested he get the breech machined out and have a new breech plug made and shrunk fit and welded.   


Offline dan610324

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Re: Want opinions on purchasing plans
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2008, 12:29:37 PM »
if you could consider an north european model of earlier model you can look at :

                          www.arkeliet.net

from 1698 to early 1800

lots of drawings
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline sseib

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Re: Want opinions on purchasing plans
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2008, 04:52:23 AM »
Double D,

If you are familiar with Buckstix method of "J" groove welding, would that be prefered over the threaded method in your opinion?

Does anyone have a contact for N-SSA specific to construction methods?

Thanks,
Steve

Offline Artilleryman

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Re: Want opinions on purchasing plans
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2008, 08:18:11 AM »
I have copied the pertinent information dealing with the construction of N-SSA approved barrels.  I was unable to copy the drawings that went with this.    The website that has all the information is http://www.n-ssa.org/NATIONAL/RULES/Rules013108.pdf     Hope this helps.


SECTION 10: ARTILLERY MATCHES (CANNON)
IMPORTANT NOTICE
In this, and in all other sections and sub-sections of these Skirmish Rules, the term “approved” by the N-SSA or its designated representative(s) shall mean that the item in question has been found to meet the dimension, configuration, mechanical function, and authenticity criteria of the N-SSA. It does not in any way imply, or infer, or guarantee the safety or the integrity of any particular item.

10.1 PARTICIPATION
Member and Probationary Organizations may fire Artillery pieces in a Skirmish as prescribed in the Skirmish program, Skirmish Rules, and special regulations of the Inspector General of the N-SSA, Inc. and/or the Artillery Ordnance Officer; however, refer to rule 2.11 for participation of skirmish staff.
10.2 ELIGIBILITY
Actual or exact scale replicas of Civil War artillery pieces may be fired. The term “Civil War” applies to any artillery piece whose model antedates April 26, 1865. Replicas of artillery pieces must duplicate original pieces. All reproduction barrels must be made of iron, steel or bronze. All reproduction barrels and those original barrels failing inspection must be lined with a bore liner of extruded seamless steel tubing of a minimum ANSI standard and of a minimum 3/8-inch wall thickness.
Figure 10.1
The liner must be closed at the breech end with a steel plug, sweat-fitted into the liner and welded. The breech plug must have a radius of at least 25 percent of the bore radius and be at least 1 inch thick at its thinnest point. (See figure 10.1). All reproduction barrels manufactured after March 1, 1986 must have pictures of the liner and breech plug before and after welding. No reproduction barrel shall be approved after March 1, 1986, that does not have one caliber’s thickness of metal surrounding the bore at the breech. (See figure 10.2 for example.) Liner may be affixed by casting barrel around the liner or by other approved methods such as bonding with high strength adhesives. The method of locking the liner in the barrel shall be approved by the Artillery Ordnance Officer. The gun and its crew must pass the inspection specified in Section 18. A gun crew shall consist of a minimum of four members of the organization. Effective 1 February 1996, all artillery pieces must be originals or full-size, exact replicas to be approved.
a. Scale replicas currently having N-SSA approval, except those with tank-type rifling, may be sold or transferred to N-SSA members or organizations and continue to be used as long as they pass the inspection at the time of transfer. If a scale replica fails to pass inspection, or is not currently inspected, it shall be disqualified from further N-SSA competition.
b. A cannon with a reduced bore is considered a scale replica gun, and is, therefore, not allowed, unless already in N-SSA use as of February 1, 1996.
c. A reproduction of rifled cannon must be rifled, unless already in N-SSA use as of February 1, 1996.

Norm Gibson, 1st SC Vol., ACWSA

Offline Double D

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Re: Want opinions on purchasing plans
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2008, 09:21:15 AM »
Persons other than me will have comment on Buckstix's construction methods.  I would look to a reputable Cannon builder or some one knowledgable on welding engineering for answers to your questions.  If Buckstix came up with, it given his reputation, I would question it.  It may be okay,  but I would question it.



Offline lendi

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Re: Want opinions on purchasing plans
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2008, 03:36:04 PM »
Steve,
I have a set of plans,two sheets, for a 12# mountin howitzer prarie carriage.  I used them to build a 1/2 scale carriage.  The plans are 1/2 scale.  They are yours for the cost of repo and shipping.  email me at len@dicannonworks.com if you are interested.  Good luck on your project.  I would like to see the results.

Len
Duck Island Cannon Works