Browning BAR -vs- Winchester SXR -vs- Remington 750 Model Woodsmaster.

[NYH1]

I've been looking at semi auto hunting rifles lately.  I love the look and feel of the Remington 750.  I don't know if I'm sold on the 750's reliability.  I know guys that love their 7400's and others that hated them.  Is the 750 any better then the 7400?  I'm also the kind of guy that strips my firearms down and keeps them clean.

I've never really heard a bad thing said about the Browning BAR.  Everyone I know that's owned or shot the BAR liked them.  Or at least liked and respected how they functioned. 

The Winchester SXR appears to be made like the BAR from what I've seen.  They cost a little less then the BAR as well, which is good! 

All three of these rifles feel good to me.  I have to be honest, I would probably be happy with any of the three as long as they functioned and shot well.  As far as cartridges go, I'd go with a 308 Win., 30-06 Spr. or a 35 Whelen (rifle or carbine).  Obviously the 35 Whelen is only available in the Remington.

Which of these rifles is "most likely" to be the most accurate?  What type of groups are these rifles capable of shooting when you find ammo that they like? 

I'll take all the information I can get.  I'm not going to buy one right away.  I'll use this rifle for deer, black bear and wild boar.  Thanks.             

[teddy12b]

I held a 750 30-06 the othe day and it fit me great.  It's supposed to be more reliable, and more accurate but of course they would say that.  Check out guntests.com and do a search for the 750 30-06.  There may be other articles on that site about the other rifles. 

[targshooter]

I have owned three Remington semi-auto hunting rifles; a .30-06 Model 742, a 7400 in .308 and now a 7400 Carbine in .30-06. The 742 shot itself to death inside 4,000 shots. Remington repaired it and expressly told me it was not made for extensive shooting and that it was near the end of its useful service life as the rear of the receiver was wearing out. I was using it in Hunting Rifle High Power Matches. I sold it. They made some changes to the rifle for the 7400 series, and I believe the reduction in the number of lugs on the bolt addressed the problem I had with wear. The two 7400s were purchased as hunting rifles and the .308 may have seen 250 or so shots before I sold it, whereas the 7400 Carbine is in inventory and working fine after 500 or so shots. I got these rifles on sale in local gun shops for much less than retail, so their low price was a factor. All were accurate rifles and with pet loads could shoot just over 1 MOA. I reload, so this research was possible without breaking the bank. Odd thing about the Remington magazines for these rifles, one day they work fine and the next they don't. Also, never leave them loaded, they do not like it. Remington will tell you this also. I wrote an article for Chuck Hawks on the 7400 Carbine and it is still on that site. After 400 more shots than when I wrote the article I still have the rifle and use it as a back-up when the weather is bad and I do not want to get my good bolt action rifles soaked.
I have never owned a Browning BAR, but the overwhelming consensus in the forums here and internet wide is that they are accurate and durable. Arms Tech Ltd uses it as the basis for a very expensive sniper rifle they sell to the US military. They evaluated the available commercial actions and the Browning BAR was the only one that had enough durability to serve as the foundation for their rifle. If I wanted a semi for extended remote hunting trips the BAR is the rifle I would pick.

[The Gamemaster]

I own a 300 Winchester Magnum Browning Pump rifle, and it is on the same basic platform as the BAR.

The rods on the forearm have felt sweepers on the Browning and the clip is enclosed inside of the action.

The only way you can get dirt into it is if you put the clip in your pocket and then put the dirty clip inside of the gun.  There is never a need to completely disassemble it and Browning tells you not to.

The old Remington's were never meant for rough service and did wear out in time.  Especially if you shoot hot loads inside of them.  I think that all they were designed for was the off the shelf 150 / 180 gr Core Lockt loads that Remington made at the time of manufacture.

I have no experience with the Winchesters because I live in Pennsylvania and it is not legal to use a semi auto gun for hunting purposes here.

There is always a couple of used Browning's on the rack at Grice Gun Shop.

[The Gamemaster]

2 years after I bought my Browning, the forearm split and I sent it back to Browning and they put a new stock and forearm on the rifle for me free of charge and it was nicer than the one that came with the rifle when I bought it new.

They made a real impression on me that day and since then all the new guns I buy are Browning's.

[Dave in WV]

NYH, IMHO you can't go wrong buying a BAR. They're not cheap to buy but they're not made cheap. I don't own one but they've built a solid reputation..

[NYH1]

I'm leaning towards the BAR Lightweight Stalker in 308 Win.  I'd like to get a one in 30-06 Spr. but I prefer the 20 inch barrel on the 308 over the 22 inch barrel on the 30-06.  The 308 with the 20 inch barrel is only 2.5 inches longer then my Marlin 336 35 Rem.  I think it'll make a nice handy hunting rifle.  I have also came to really appreciate the matt finish and synthetic stocks and fore-arms on "hunting" rifles and shotguns.

[Slufoot]

Hello New York Hunter, I'm sure you will really like a BAR. I bought two this year, one for my dad and while I was working up a load for it I realized I was going to have to get one for myself. These guns, both 30-06's are a real pleasure to shoot, accuracy is great, recoil is very soft and reliability is flawless.
My dads gun is a MK-II Lightweight, it has walnut stocks, an alloy receiver, factory sights and a 20" barrel. I mounted a compact 3-9 T/C scope in Weaver bases and rings, dad swears his BAR is lighter than his old Ruger M77 270.
My BAR is a MK-II Safari, it has walnut stocks, steel receiver, no sights and a 22" barrel. I mounted a Leupold 3-9 Century Limited Edition scope in a one piece Leupold base with Leupold low rings. My gun is noticeably heavier than my dads, but no more heavy than alot of other hunting rifles I've handled.
I bought both of these guns used but in like new condition for less than the price of a new Remington auto. Our BAR's accounted for four deer this year, two apiece!

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

[teddy12b]

Hey Slufoot,
       What size of groups did you get with those rifles using hunting ammo?  I'm always curious about what guys are getting out of those rifle, but most times guys will say how good it shoots using match ammo and not a regular hunting bullet. 

[mcwoodduck]

The BAR and the Win are basically the same rifle.  Both companies are owned by FN.
Think Buick and OLDS in the 70's and 80's.  Same frame, same motor, same factory, different hood ornaments.
For the BAR I say 06 or .308.  and for Upstate NY I would use the Remington corelok 180 grain round nose soft points (SP).   Also some of the most inexpensive big game shells out there that work really well.  When the box says deadliest mushroom in the woods I believe.
With other premium bullets( A Frame, Nos Part, ...Ect) you could use it to hunt Elk or moose, and with the smaller 150/ 165's you could do antelope or mule deer.  Never know when the opportunity will come up to hunt in the west.

[Slufoot]

Hey Slufoot,
       What size of groups did you get with those rifles using hunting ammo?  I'm always curious about what guys are getting out of those rifle, but most times guys will say how good it shoots using match ammo and not a regular hunting bullet. 

Hey teddy12b, All I have shot in these guns has been hunting loads and I'll add that they are as cheap as you can get. I bought a set of used RCBS small base dies off of ebay before they went anti on us. I also bought once fired 30-06 brass and bulk Remington 150 grain PSP/CL bullets. The powder I use is surplus military IMR-4895 ($79 for 8#) and a CCI-200 primers.
I actually just worked up a load in my dads gun with the 20" barrel. I kept increasing the powder charge until I got to 2850 FPS, I shot 3 shot groups while working up the load and all the groups I shot were great, the best was 7/8" and the worst was 1-3/8". When I got my gun I just shot the load in it that I worked up in my dads gun and it averages 1-1/4" groups. I haven't shot mine over the chronograph but guess it should be about 2900 FPS with the extra 2" of barrel.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

[30-30man]

Spend more and get the BAR.  They've made them for years and they are as accurate as a bolt gun.  The quality issues, change of designs, and the way Remington treats the customers who bought their mistakes, should steer anyone away from buying a semi from Remington.  How many changes has Remington had?? What will happen when you need a part for that Remington 10 years from now?  The odds are not good you will be able to find parts.  Remington makes great bolt guns and pumps but semis are another story compared to other makes. 

[NYH1]

Spend more and get the BAR.  They've made them for years and they are as accurate as a bolt gun.  The quality issues, change of designs, and the way Remington treats the customers who bought their mistakes, should steer anyone away from buying a semi from Remington.  How many changes has Remington had?? What will happen when you need a part for that Remington 10 years from now?  The odds are not good you will be able to find parts.  Remington makes great bolt guns and pumps but semis are another story compared to other makes. 

Well I never had to take a semi-auto Remington back to Remington for service work.....never owned one.  I did however have problems with an 870 Express and Remingtons customer service was great.  That's just been my experience. 

I was at Gander Mountain yesterday looking at semi-auto rifles.  The more I look at the Remington 750 the more I'm not impressed with them.  I like the way they feel but that's about it.   Compared to the Winchester and Browning they seem cheaply made.  I like the look of the Browning BAR Lightweight Stalker.  They didn't have one so I wasn't able to see how they feel.  They had two used  BAR Safari's.  One was a 7mm Rem. mag.  It had a short (20") ported barrel.  The other was a 300 Win. mag. with a longer barrel and BOSS system.  These were the only BAR Safari's they had.  Both had steel receivers.  Neither one felt good to me, they felt kind of heavy in the rear and didn't balance to well for me.  I REALLY like the way the BAR Short & LongTrac's and the Winchester SXR feels.  I'm not overly crazy about the looks of them, but they feel awesome to me.  I think the Winchester was under $700, I can't remember for sure though.  The BAR's were over $800.  I'm not going to get one anytime soon. 

[Slufoot]

New York Hunter,
If you aren't in a hurry to get one, then I suggest you start watching the on-line auctions, such as gunbroker and auction arms. If you don't already subscribe to Gun Digest The Magazine, formerly known as The Gun List, then I'd recommend subscribing, they also have a web site that you can watch but the adds are held back to give the subscribers first chance at deals.
If you can get to any gun shows in your area then this is also a good place to handle some rifles and maybe find a deal.
I bought my dads gun from Gun Digest The Magazine and it was used but absolutely like new, not even a scratch on it for $515 + $20 for the tranfer fee from my local dealer. Most of the people who place adds in Gun Digest The Magazine will come down some from their asking price, at least all the ones I've dealt with have.
I bought my BAR at a gun show and it too is just like brand new. The guy that had it wanted $625 for it and that wasn't a bad price, but after about 30 minutes of haggling with him I walked away with it for $565.
The way I look at it, I got these guns for less than I could have bought a new Remington and I feel like I got a better gun.
By watching the on-line auctions you will know what these guns are selling for and you will know when you get a deal in one.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

[30-30man]

Yeah, take your time if you are not in a hurry.  I wouldn't count out a Saiga either.  They are built to take abuse and are not as pretty as the BAR.  The BARs are so pretty, I'd hate to do any serious hunting with them.  One scratch and I'd be sick to my stomach.  The 308 Saiga is a great shooter and I've enjoyed mine.

[wi-deerhunter]

I have a Remington model 750 Woodsmaster .308 carbine and hunt for 2 years now I never had any problem. Its a great gun.  My friend has a browning bar in .270 and he is not happy with it. Remington 750 are very comfortable to handle and looking good. When I handle the browning, I don't feel comfortable with it, its not very pointable like Rem 750, and feel stiff when shoulder the bar. Saiga dont looks good in hunting picture, by the way.

[NYH1]

I have a Remington model 750 Woodsmaster .308 carbine and hunt for 2 years now I never had any problem. Its a great gun.  My friend has a browning bar in .270 and he is not happy with it. Remington 750 are very comfortable to handle and looking good. When I handle the browning, I don't feel comfortable with it, its not very pointable like Rem 750, and feel stiff when shoulder the bar. Saiga dont looks good in hunting picture, by the way.

I agree that the Remington 750/7400's look and feel great.  However the more I talk to guys that own then, the more I'm leaning to the BAR's.  Two guys I know love them, never had any problems with them.  3 or 4 guys say they're OK, they've had minor problems, don't know if they'd buy a new one.  3 or 4 others say they would never own a semi-auto Remington center fire rifle again.

There are a few different configurations of the BAR.  Personally I don't really care for the steel receiver Safari models.  They seem to rear heavy to me.  The Short & Long Trac BAR's as well as the Winchester Super X Rifles feel great, balance extremely well and point great.  I want to hold a BAR Lightweight Stalker.  They look like the Safari but they have an aluminum receiver instead of steel.  I want to see how they balance and point.

Our plant hired 5 to 6 guys (mostly supervisors) from Remington's Ilion, NY plant.  I know two of them pretty well.  They don't recommend 750's or 7400's either.  They used to make them.  They both told me to get a 7600 pump instead.  I'm not knocking them.  Just saying what the general consensus seems to be.  Beleive me, a 750 Carbine in 35 Whelen would be perfect for me.               

[Country Boy]

I've shot and hunted with the Bar and versions of Remington's  No doubt the Bar is more accurate, mine will outshoot most most bolt guns at the Range. I've used about every version of the Remington. They fit me better than the bar but it's hit or miss on accuracy. I've had some that will do the magicinch other that wouldn't group at all. My son uses a .270 and only hunts deer. He has a good one and neck shot a deer at 247 yds just at dark this year. I bought one of the 750's and had nothing but trouble, wouldnt shoot at all and had a cracked forend. Of course they fixed it but I  had no faith in it's accuracy. I swapped it for a carbine model , what a difference ! You would have thought that carbine was a bench rest rifle ! I also own a few winchester 100's but accuracy is poor.
    I have no experence with the New winchester but they fit me nicely.
Some people call Remingtons jam o-matics but I've never had that problem with any of the afore mentioned rifles. Right now I'm in the market for another Remington in .270  As far as function or accurcy the Bar is best but the stock is a little bulky for me.

[mike30-06]

On the BAR you better be able to live with the trigger creep and pull weight because no gunsmith I know will touch one. $800.00 - $900.00 for a rifle that you can't do a trigger job on, I Don't Think So!

[Country Boy]

 Triggers have never been a problem for me. Nothing really to concern your self with. Just shoot and get used to it. For a hunting rifle they are just fine. The guys who worry about triggers are more paper punchers than real hunters. I'm sure you never fell the recoil when shoot a buck or worry about the trigger.  The old timers worried more aboutrifle  fit than anything else unless they were target shooters. Get a rifle and get used to it learn to become part of the gun.

[NYHunter]

I have the BAR Lightweight Stalker in .308. No problems with trigger creep. The action cycles smoothly. It's a nice rifle. My only complaint is that it is very particular about the ammo you feed it. Used to reload but don't have time these days. I tried most of the Core-Lokts, Federal non-premium loads, and Winchester Power Points. I have 'settled' for the 150 grn. Power Points, the group is  OK
for hunting whitetails. Going to try some of higher priced Rem loads this year, the Accu-bond and Ultra Core-Lokt. Like I said it's a nice rifle, but I like my 760 pump '06 carbine better.  When I was younger the extra weight of the semi-auto didn't matter, now a days  I'm looking for a fast reliable action and lighter weight.

[gt40]

I'll say one thing that the 7400 & 720 that I had aimed like a good shotgon. The 7400 30-06 would group way under an inch at 100 yds. Problem was I kept having issues to fix it. I finally got a new BAR Safari 30-06 which groups under 1' and it is the first gun I grab if I'm going deer hunting. I have killer many doubles with it. Drop the first one then the other one freezes, but doesn't hear you reload like a lever gun or a bolt or a pump.  Bang the second one goes down. I put a Kane gun cover on it and it doesn't have one scratch on it.

"Aim small miss small",

gt40

[Country Boy]

GT 40 you got it exactly right but I might add if the other deer runs off a little or you need a second quick because you hit a tree. You are ready to go. I have a browning just like yoursw, but a Remington 7400 seems to fit me better. I just bought one offf the net, I hope it works out qccuracy wish. My so has had two and they were tack drivers I've had 3-4 including the new 750 and I can't get them to shoot. my test is if I can shoot a canteloupe at 300 yds. Again I've shot very few deer beyond 250 yds. and most much closer.

[dpastordan]

I had a great little 742 in .243 for about 20 years.  Did well.  I had a 7400 Carbine in .30-06 and had some ejection problems with it.   I discovered from other friends that sometimes a weak spring was a common problem causing ejection problems.  I own a Saiga in the Russian cartridge and a BAR Long Trac in .7mm Remington Mag.  The Saiga is durable and about a 2-3" group at 100 yards with iron sights.  The Remington is a delight to shoot - soft recoil and very, very accurate: 1 to 1 1/2" groups.   Other than the occasional gripe about a trigger, I haven't heard any bad comments about the BAR's.  And I have only heard two folks complain about trigger issues.