Bear Protection

[RollTide]

What is the most commonly carried firearm and load in AK for big bear PROTECTION ? (as opposed to hunting)

Davinthebush,
I have seen you post that you carry a 12ga shotgun for bear protection with two 3" steel BB loads up first.  I find that fascinating. Could you please explain the reasons for this for the uninitiated?  Is this something unique to yourself or is it a common practice in AK?  

Thanks in advance for any and all information.

[Stringer]

I doubt it is common but I carry a model 70 375 Weatherby when trapping early and late in the season, and just about any other time I head into the brush. Sure, it is heavy. Even more so with a mecury cylinder in the stock, BUT it is peace of mind. Especially since I am very comfortable shooting it.

[Daveinthebush]

Firstly: What people carry is what they are most comfortable with.  Some like medium bores, big bores, shotguns and pistols.  Some even like pepper spray.  

What is better is hard to declare because I doubt if anyone has kept track of all the bear attacks and the correct information associated with those attacks as to what would be best.  So the stories of people killing a bear with a .22 or a .458 all need to be weighed with a lot of skeptism.  A well placed .22 probably beats a poorly placed .458.  People write in all the time saying that if such-and-such Great White Hunter did this or that then why can't I?    

1. My own belief is that everyone should carry common sense.
2. The firearm should be the largest one that you are comfortable with and can hit accurately and maybe get off a second shot.
3. As one movie actor stated:  Only a  "........"  would  bring a kinfe to a gun fight.

Why the BB's?   When I first came up here I frequented forums such as this and one persons suggestion was what I use.  The theory is to smack him in the face with 1 3/8 oz. of steel that will hopefully
A. blind him
B. fill his nose with the smell of blood.  
C. Hopefully all he can taste is his own blood.
D.  A, B, C, or any combination will allow you to use the remaining rounds with a little more time to do so accurately.

I just do not want to field test the theory.  Kind of hard to predict the results and I would rather just avoid the situation all together. :roll:

[RollTide]

I think my chances of hitting a charging grizzly in the face with a 18 " pattern of BBs at 25 yards is much better than hitting him in the brain with a 45/70.  I tend to agree that a load of 1 3/8 ozs of BBs in the bears face should give the shooter enough time for a well aimed finishing shot.  Have you heard of new 12ga slugs that are sabot slugs made of solid copper?  They sound like they would be great for bear protection.  One or two rounds of BBs followed by some high velocity solid copper slugs sound like about as good a combination as can be had, barring a 10 foot wide vaporizing death ray.  Yours was the first mention of BBs I had ever seen.  I wonder if the BBs would have enough mustard on them to pentrate the skull, especially through the back of the eye sockets.  Even a few BBs buzzing through the brain should be quite effective at stopping or severely slowing the charge in addition to all the other factors you mentioned.

Thnaks for the quick reply

[Paul H]

The most common I have no doubt is the 12 ga.  Now, if you look at what people who are serious carry, most common is the 375 H&H.

[longwinters]

I read an article about a Griz that ate a camper out west.  When the Rangers caught up to and killed the bear they did some ckng on it to try to figure out why it would rip a door off of a camper and eat the guy inside...somehow I picture the camper like an oyster to that bear.  Anyway they found three 44 mag bullets, mostly healed, over in the roof of its mouth from a previous encounter.  The bear did not seem to mind getting a little mineral with its meat.  I like the shotgun idea.

[Daveinthebush]

I used to belong to a camp in the Adirondak Mountains.  We once had a black bear tear through 5/8" T-111, 3/4 hardboard and then push a 400 pound coal/wood stove away from the wall before he gained entry and destroyed the place.

I don't feel safe in my camper unless the .44 is near my head. Although I don't know if I want the headache from the muzzle blast in the camper.  I just might have to move the fight outside!

[Dand]

I'd bet  in numbers more folks carry a 44 mag hand gun for protection.  I'd also bet that 95% or more of those carrying a 44 really aren't capable of using it effectively - but it gives them peace of mind.  I admint I carry a 41 mag and I'm probably in the 95% category.  On occasion I may carry a 12 ga with slugs and buck.   If I'm really worried a 300 win mag with anything from 180 to 220 Nosler Partitions - because that's what I have.  A 338 or 375 might be better but I don't have them.  I know one guy who has stopped 2 Kodiak browns (2 different events) with his Weatherby in 30-06. And another who has stopped a charge with a .338 win. - that bear knocked the gun out of his hands at the shot but died. I know one other former Michigan deer hunter who stopped a charge with his 308 Win mod 100 - the bear slid to about 2 feet from him and died.  I have heard of anther guy killing a brown bear with 12 ga # 6's when it stuck his head in the cabin door.  I was told of a provoked charge diverted by a .44 mag - bear went off wounded and never found, and one charge diverted by bear spray at about 3 feet.

I think it helps to carry a gun you know well and have confidence in.  Bear spray can work - properly used - in the face of the bear at short range.

[Winter Hawk]

The Forest Service minimum in S.E. is .30-06 with 220 gr. bullets.  Standard issue is either .375 or 12 ga pump.  I qualified with both, found the .375 much more pleasant to shoot.

Back in the early '70s I worked with a guy who was backpacking off the Denali Hwy. with a friend when they were charged by a grizzly.  Roger waited until the bear was about 15 yards away and started shooting with his .44 mag.  He fired off all 5 rounds, then got three more shells in the cylinder while the bear was killing his buddy.  It then came at him and he got those three rounds off.  The bear expired with his nose a foot from Roger's toes.  All 8 shots were in the chest cavity, and there were no lungs or heart left.  He traded off the .44 for a .458 Winchester mag.

The Marlin Guide Gun in .45-70 was recommended to a fellow F.S. surveyor.  He didn't want to lug the .375 around and bought his own bear gun.  The powers that be have given their blessing on it.

-Kees-

[Old Moss]

:?  Afternoon gents.  I have to agree with Daveinthebush.  The best weapon anyone has got is right between his ears. Common sense and keeping your wits will go far.  But as a last resort what weapon is best I been looking hard.

     Bolt actions?  375 H&H / 458 WM / 416 / 458 lott
     Single Shots?   "              "            "        "       / 45-70
     Handgun?   44mag / 480 / 454 / 445
     shotgun? 12g / 10g

In Africa the prof. hunters speak highly of the double rifle.  So what about a good short barreled S/S shotgun - simple less mech. to go wrong 1st shot buckshot and second slug?  The Marlin 1895 GG in 45-70 SS looks good or maybe the Dan Wesson 445.  The first two are a bit cheaper but heavier.  Just my two scents.  But I haven't made a decision either, any recommendations welcomed.  Thanks  :-)

[RollTide]

Old Moss,
I would not get a single shot at all.  Too slow !

For a long gun, a double barrel shotgun, or double rifle might be as good as anything since it seems that in a real charge it is unlikely that you would have time to get more than 2 shots off anyway.  EAA makes a double barrel twelve gauge that you can also put 2 45/70 inserts in and make it a 45/70 double rifle.  Or you can use one shotgun barrel and one rifle insert for a 12ga/rifle combo.  The big plus for this combo is that it is a great survival tool and can also serve in a defense sitation if needed.

You get the most knock down power with a bolt action, but it might as well be a single shot because the recoil and action type make it slow to cycle especially under pressure with the long magnum rounds.  If I were going to carry magnum round, I would carry a double rifle but the ones in those calibers are really EXPENSIVE.

But if I were in big bear country on a regular basis, it would be a 45/70 lever action or a pump shotgun.  Speed for repeat shots, adequate knock down power, and plenty of shots on tap so that if you slow the big guy down with the first 2 shots, you have 3 or 4 more to finish the job.

As for a handgun, I would carry the biggest double action revolver I could shoot one handed with my weak hand (the strong arm may be in the bears mouth by the time I am reaching for the handgun.)  For me, that is a 4" Dan Wesson 445 Supermag (I can always shoot 44 mags in the same gun if need be or 44 specials for small game for the camp pot.)  I am also building a ported  445 Supermag lever action which I will use for bear protection up to 600lb to 700lb bears.  For the really big ones, it will be the 12ga with Brenneke premium slugs (and maybe a steel BB load up front) or a 45/70 PORTED guide gun stoked with Garretts 540gr Hammerheads.

Those are my present thoughts on the subject anyway.




To All:

Thanks to all who have offered responses.  They have been very helpful to me.


Roll Tide