Author Topic: 8x57 AI- Has anyone tried it?  (Read 2627 times)

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Offline lgm270

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8x57 AI- Has anyone tried it?
« on: December 28, 2006, 08:56:11 AM »
I've seen the 8x57 AI listed as a chambering option on several web sites.  I just wondered if anyone has tried it.  The advantage would be that you could fire cheapo surplus ammo, but you could heat it up for enhanced ballistics with hand loads. 

Also, the 8x57 has  bad reputation as a case stretcher and going the AI route would eliminate this.

An additional factor is that if you had an 8x57 AI trim die, you could "die form" improved cases from 30-06 length brass without having to fire form.  This would work with any 57mm length AI including the 7x57 AI and the  358x57 mm AI.  The latter 35 caliber round seems to be generating some significant interest if you read the gun boards.

Offline Lynn Alan Kietzman

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Re: 8x57 AI- Has anyone tried it?
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2007, 05:11:37 PM »
I just can't imagine the benefit of an AI in 8mm. Go to the 8mm-06. The pressure is pretty long in the 8x57 Mauser. Talk to a gunsmith about the strength of your action and maybe work you load up accordingly.
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Offline Drilling Man

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Re: 8x57 AI- Has anyone tried it?
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2007, 03:56:26 AM »
Quote
Also, the 8x57 has  bad reputation as a case stretcher and going the AI route would eliminate this.

  In a modern action??  99.9% of all case stretching is caused by out of spec chambers, improper reloading die adjustment and loading to too high of pressure.  That's for all cartridges not just the 8x57.

  I haven't found the 8x57 to "stretch" cases any worse than any other cartridge...  If you need more V, i'm with the "just go 8mm 06" crowd.

  DM

Offline CapoWard

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Re: 8x57 AI- Has anyone tried it?
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2007, 10:28:54 AM »
It definitely depends upon the action you’re using.  As reference:
- 8 mm Mauser (8x57 JRS) typically has a typical Max OAL of 3.065”
- 8mm-06 typically has a typical Max OAL of 3.250”

If you’re using a commercial action or M98 Mauser standard length action with a 3.315”-3.400” internal magazine length then I’d also recommend one of the 8mm-06 derivates to maximize your performance.

If you’re using an intermediate length M98 Mauser action with 3.115”-3.118” internal magazine length then the 8mm AI makes sense as you’d have a bullet seating issue with the ’06 length case.

Offline Mikey

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Re: 8x57 AI- Has anyone tried it?
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2007, 02:10:46 AM »
'Case stretching' - nope, out of spec chamber or old shot out military chamber maybe.  I get excellent usage from my 8x57 cases (American made) and have not experienced any stretching. 

8x57 AI ???  How about 8mm/06 instead?  Mikey.

Offline BAGTIC

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Re: 8x57 AI- Has anyone tried it?
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2007, 07:45:59 AM »
'...but you could heat it up for enhanced ballistics with hand loads. '

You don't need an improved case to do that. Most American 8x57 loads are vastly underloaded when compared with European ammo. In a solid gun load to .308 pressures and that will be plenty.

Offline zasxcd

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Re: 8x57 AI- Has anyone tried it?
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2007, 11:06:32 AM »
The only Ackley Improved chamber that I ever thought justified by results was the .25-35 AI or the .22 Savage Hi-Power AI. Ackley had access to neither pressure testing equipment nor a chronograph. Extensive testing in recent times has shown AI chambers produce AT BEST 1-3% increase in velocity, and much of that is because of pressure increases. As for an 8x57mmJS AI chamber, how absurd!! As stated above, just load it to the same pressure that a .30-06 uses, voila! 8mm "Magnum". Want more? 8mm-06, if your magazine will feed it. As for forming from .30-06, forming directly to the AI shape would result in much more brass buckling than forming to the original 8x57 would. I know, I have been reloading and forming the 8x57 for about 42 years.
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Offline onesonek

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Re: 8x57 AI- Has anyone tried it?
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2007, 12:39:39 PM »
 "Extensive testing in recent times has shown AI chambers produce AT BEST 1-3% increase in velocity, and much of that is because of pressure increases."

I have seen some of these test, and while true in some cases. They are not in all.
Take the .308 family. That case has less body taper than some/most, and would likely fall into that 1% category. The 06 family, has a little more taper and slightly less shoulder. So there would be more volume gain, with that case.
Where AI's shine, is with cases that have a fair amount of body taper, and less shoulder. And those that were loaded to modest pressures to begin with. So yes most of the velocity is gained through the increase in pressure. But some is gained naturally, by more volume. I gain more than some/most because I shoot single shots, and with that I can seat the bullet out farther increasing case volume also.
As far as pressure goes, I don't have pressure equipment either. Whether it be an AI round or commercial load, I load the same. I start by checking various manuals, and select a starting load. I'll load up till that particular firearm tells me enough is enough. Then out of prudence, I will back of 1/2 to 1 full grain. Should the velocity not be what I expected, I will try another powder. Should the velocity be there, but not accuracy(most important), I willl start over and play with seating depth, and or other load components.
With 30+ years experience, with wildcats and several AI chamberings. My best guess with 8x57 being chambered to AI, I would expect 60-100fps gain (pending of course the firearms likes and dislikes). From a  2-2.5% increase pressure, and the balance from increased volume. Which I have found to be 10-15 fps per grain increase Now those figures come from using the Powley formulas, which I found out are conservative. Basically, velocity gain is 1/2 of the pressure increase. But sometime back, I had spoken with a couple different powder companies regarding the formulas. And they said that velocity gain is proportionate with pressure with most cases, once a certain level of pressure is reached. I don't remember what that was exactly,and really don't matter, as the gun still tells when I have reached max. and the chronograph, tells me my gain.
And it has been mention again, not all bolt guns like AI rounds. Sometimes you can modify the feeding ramp and mag. follower so they do feed reliably. But then it becomes a  question, when does the  gain out weigh the expense?
One other advantage of the AI's, is that the sharper shoulder does slow case growth some, reducing trimming for length.
Still, AI's aren't always a practical option, I wouldn't goes as far as to call it absurd.
But I still have fun playing around and shooting, with all the load development involved.
It boils down to,,,,It's your money, spend it as you wish!!!
Dave