Zoli double rifle

[jwm]

Does anyone have any opinions or knowledge about Zoli double rifles?  I have an O/U Zoli, caliber 7x65R, called the Leopard model.
Decent looking gun, came with a nice scope mounting rail/rings.  Quite nicely finished, but certainly not in the league of the more high-grade doubles.

Each barrel is quite accurate, shooting about 1 1/4 inch groups @ 100 yards, but the two barrels group about 4 inches apart at that range.  I've done limited shooting with it because ammo is scarce here (Ontario, Canada).  It came with dies, so I guess it'll take some experimentation now that I have the brass.

Sorry, no pictures available.

Thanks

John

[dougk]

I have an O/U Zoli, caliber 7x65R, called the Leopard model.

Each barrel is quite accurate, shooting about 1 1/4 inch groups @ 100 yards, but the two barrels group about 4 inches apart at that range. 

John,
I always heard it was difficult to manage the point of impact on O/U double rifles.
Doug

[Drilling Man]

  See if it says on the bbls. (maybe under the forearem or on the breech block?)  what bullet "weight" it was regulated for, then make up handloads starting with "that" bullet weight.  Use a starting load, and then as you increase speed it should bring the bbls. together...

  Keep in mind that the bullets "cross" at some point, so at 100 yards are they still comeing together???  OR did they already "cross" and at 100 yards they are now going apart??  (individual bbl. groups) Shoot at a closer range to check for this, marking every hole (shot) as you shoot....  Then move the target out a bit, shooting again to see what is happening...

  BTW, i have an O/U double in 7x65R too, and it's a GREAT cartridge for all but the biggest and most dangerous animials....

  DM

[jwm]

  See if it says on the bbls. (maybe under the forearem or on the breech block?)  what bullet "weight" it was regulated for, then make up handloads starting with "that" bullet weight.  Use a starting load, and then as you increase speed it should bring the bbls. together...

  Keep in mind that the bullets "cross" at some point, so at 100 yards are they still comeing together???  OR did they already "cross" and at 100 yards they are now going apart??  (individual bbl. groups) Shoot at a closer range to check for this, marking every hole (shot) as you shoot....  Then move the target out a bit, shooting again to see what is happening...

  BTW, i have an O/U double in 7x65R too, and it's a GREAT cartridge for all but the biggest and most dangerous animials....

  DM

Thanks for the info.  I shot up my remaining factory ammo, only to find that the groups just keep getting further and further apart.  At 20 yards I get one nice tight group, hard to tell which hole came from which barrel if you aren't keeping track.  At 50 yards, two groups maybe 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 inches apart.  At 100 yards, 3 3/4 to 4 inch spread between groups.  At 200 yards, it's up to about 7 inches.  I should mention that the top barrel's groups seem to be moving further and further to the right as distance increases, while the bottom barrel prints further and further to the left.  The groups seem to be very close to perfectly aligned as far as elevation goes, the dispersal seems to be entirely horizontal.

I have only the most basic handloading skills, but it looks like I may have used up all 7x65R ammo that's to be had within about a 100 kilometer radius of here, so I guess it's time to jump onto the learning curve if I want to use this gun.  I've pretty much written it off for this year's hunting, abut I think it's gonna be my winter project.  It's already been more trouble than I had hoped, but it is such a classy toy that I'm nowhere near to giving up just yet.

Thanks for your assistance and suggestions.  I shall return.

John





John

[dougk]

John,
keep in mind that these guns are typically made for field applications. If you are shooting more than 2-3 rounds the barrel heats up and the balistics start to change vs. when the barrel is cool.  So you might want to give the barrels time to cool down after each shot. 

Doug

[Drilling Man]

  Another thing, most guys with doubles learn where one of the bbls. shoots at longer ranges, and then just uses "that" bbl. for the long shots...

  DM

[jwm]

Thanks dougk and Drilling Man for your assistance.

I was being careful to avoid barrel heating, as I knew that I had a very limited amount of ammo and wanted to make it count.  I had pretty much resigned myself to sighting in for one barrel and just using Kentucky windage for the second shot if it was needed.  I couldn't find anything on the gun indicating recommended bullet weight.

I wasn't totally happy with things so I passed on using the gun for hunting this year.

I tried a few more boxes of various brands/weights of ammo that I was able to scrounge at local shops ("You want a box of what?") and gun shows with various results.  Then at a local gun show recently I picked up two boxes of Fiocchi 170gr loads.  WOW!  Two shots from each barrel produce two 1 1/4" groups that OVERLAP at 100 yards!  By the time I got them sighted in I had only 23 rounds left.  I am hoarding them for next year's hunting season.  I have a trip planned to Quebec for caribou, my first time for these critters.  The Zoli will be my second gun (that has such a cool sound to it!).

I'm thinking of disassembling one of these priceless gems for some clues as to what kind/weight of powder they are loaded with.  Best of all, my favourite local shop thinks that they can get me more.  Until they do, or until I can dupllicate this load, I don't dare play around at longer ranges.  So for the time being, I'm going to consider this a 125-150 yard gun at maximum.  That's okay, I'm not real big on long range shooting, I'm a .45-70 fan.

Life is good.      Thanks again for your help.

John

[AkMike1]

John, I suggest that you beg, borrow, or steal (joking) a chronograph and send a couple of those Fiocchi's down range to get the speed. Then try to duplicate that speed with different powders while staying with that 170 grain weight bullet. Later try different brands of bullets to fine tune the loads.
 I'm not familiar with the Zoli's, are they a married (Soldered together) barrel set or seperate just joined at the breech and muzzle?  If married stay away from the mono metal slugs.

[dougk]

One other thing to consider is the barrel twist rate.  Have you tried any other brand 170 gr ammo?  If not I would look for a box and try it.  It might be your twist rate is setup for the 170gr or something close bullet weight.

[Drilling Man]

I'm thinking of disassembling one of these priceless gems for some clues as to what kind/weight of powder they are loaded with.

  You already know the bullet weight, and you will never duplicate the powder because you have no idea what kind it is or what the burning rate is.  So i think you will be wasteing your time tearing one down.

  I handload for my 7x65R and the cases last a long long time so i don't have ammo problems.  You may want to think about reloading for your's too?

  If your double likes Fiocchi ammo, do a search on line and find a dealer who has more of it or can order it for you...

  BTW, i've seen 7x65R ammo on the shelf at Cabella's...

  DM

[jwm]

Thanks, DM, I realized as I fiddled with the bullet puller that I was about to achieve nothing more than tearing apart one of my last precious rounds!  I do reload (reluctantly) and will be doing so for this 7mm once I get it chronoed (a friend has one).

I have gotten a reasonable supply of the Fiocchi ammo from a local dealer so am no longer desperate.

I had to laugh when I read the last line of your post, regarding Cabela's.  As a subject of the Republic of Canuckistan, I am forced to submit to such ridiculous government control and scrutiny when I wander into my local gunshop to buy a simple brick of .22's that I shudder to think of the repercussions if I were to attempt ordering ammo by mail, from the U.S. 

After all, the average Canuck "knows" that you're all a bunch of gun-totin', chest-poundin', flag-wavin', homicidal right wing maniacs, don't ya know!

It must be nice to still live in a free country.

John

[Drilling Man]

  Every once in a while i wonder into Canada...  I love Canada and it's people it's a wonderfull place!  And i can see why you don't like the Gov. there..  BUT, one of these days you all will get together a vote the retards out, and things will improve for you gun owners!!!

  A really cool "REAL" gunshop in Canada is, Ellwood Epps Sporting Goods, and i bet they would try VERY hard to get you what ever you want...  (705)689-5333

  DM

[jwm]

Yes, our current government is actually fairly pro-gun, at least in comparison to the Liberals who ruled for so long before them.  Unfortunately, they have a minority in the House, so it's difficult for them to get a lot done.

And, yes, Epps is indeed one of the old-time gunshops!  It's about 100km one way for me, but I still make the drive regularly.  They were the ones who were able to get me the ammo that I needed for this gun, as well as innumerable other bits of "unobtania" over the years.  Outstanding people to deal with.  I was there yesterday and picked up my second Norinco M14S semiauto, for the ridiculous price of $449 Canadian (up from $399 for the last one).  One of the very few benefits to being a Canuck shooter!

Thanks for all of your help.  If my caribou hunt goes as planned, I will post details of the performance of the Zoli.

John

[jwm]

Just thought that I would send in the latest installment in the ongoing saga of my Zoli double.  I got back from Quebec a few weeks ago (my first-ever guided hunt...at age 50!) and, sadly, have no wonderful tales of double rifle joy.  I hunted hard the first three days with the Zoli, and it wasn't easy for me to watch that gun getting soaking wet.  We saw very few caribou, and the 2 shootable bulls I came across were out at 400+ yards.  No shot there.  I finally wimped out and started to use my Ruger 77 .300WinMag.  I took a beautiful bull at 412 lasered yards (thank God that I had that rifle with me!) and later another, less impressive bull at 200 yards that would have been an easy shot with the Zoli.  Oh well...

On the last day I went out with a young fellow looking for his second caribou (which we never found) but I was fortunate enough to take a gorgeous B&C black bear...again with the Ruger.  The only shots fired with the double were to check the sights in camp.

My thanks to all who provided me with useful information.

John

[dougk]

John
thanks for sharing your story.  Too bad about the Zoli, but something tells me its time will come...
Doug