Author Topic: 45-70 bullet for lesser recoil  (Read 1542 times)

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Offline webrehm

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45-70 bullet for lesser recoil
« on: September 24, 2007, 04:29:36 PM »
In my 45-70 (marlin) I have shot factory loads of 300 gr winchester and 405 grain remmington. Suprising the Winchester loads kick more.  I would to to reload and have a load with less kick than the remmingtons.  I would think that a bullet of no more than 350 gr would be appropriate.  I would think that no more than 1500fps would be needed for my needs.
I would like the load to be accurate to 200 yards which is about as far as I think would take a shot.  Given all that, what LBT bullet would be a good choice? Since I want a lighter kicking load, any powder suggestions that would still fill the case would also be appreciated.   

tks
Dennis

Offline Veral

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Re: 45-70 bullet for lesser recoil
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2007, 06:35:38 PM »
  I'd recommend a 350 gr LFN, and plain base will be fine for speeds to 1600 fps in any weather, 1800 fps in temps below 80 F, if you are using LBT bullet lubricant.  For leverguns I make them without crimp groove so you can seat where they shoot best and chamber without force, then crimp LIGHTLY with a lee factory crimp die.

  I've never personally loaded for a 45-70 but many customers swear by 4198, either brand, with 21 gr being about a 1400 fps load.  The gun and bullet will handle a lot more powder of coarse, and the case will be far from full, but an old get neighbor prints 1 inch groups at 100 yards with his, and iron sights, using the 21 gr load.
Veral Smith deceased 1/19/25

Offline swampthing

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Re: 45-70 bullet for lesser recoil
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2007, 09:44:13 AM »
AA5744 and Alliant 2400 are good powders for the speeds your after, Unique and Trail-boss are also great if you want velocity a tad slower.

Offline ND Sharpshooter

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Re: 45-70 bullet for lesser recoil
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2007, 04:36:56 AM »
Got a new 45-70 2-cavity mould from Veral last week.  Alloy of 1-20 or so casts 460-461 and weight is 329-330 (anything lighter or heavier goes back into the pot for next casting session) and they are round.  Have used 3031 from 33 to 41 grains.  My 1895 Model Marlin seems to like 38 and 39 grains about the best.  Recoil is moderate even at the bench for extended shooting.  Accuracy at 38 and 39 is under 3 inches.  38 grains put 6 of 10 in one inch and the jerk on the trigger then lost his cool.
Am using LBT soft blue for lube.  Have gone over 1500 fps with this alloy and lube in this rifle and have very little leading---some thin strips that pushed out easily with Kroil and a tight patch or two.  It's a relatively light rifle compared to the Sharps I traded in on the Marlin and I'm recoil sensitive due to messed up shoulders so I try to stay on the light side of things recoil wise.  This 330 grainer and 3031 seems to fit the bill.  I don't know yet how this bullet will hold up trajectory-wise at 200 yards.  My main goal was to end up with a good 100 yard and closer deer load.  I think I have it now.  Good luck.
Never said I didn''t know how to use one.  :wink:

Offline Veral

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Re: 45-70 bullet for lesser recoil
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2007, 05:59:30 PM »
  Notice that ND shooter is using a very soft alloy, with negligible leading.  What he forgot to mention is that the bullet isn't wearing gas checks!

  When I made the mold I was a bit edgy about that light an LFN without gas checks giving acceptable accuracy, as best accuracy with 45-70s is normally attained with much heavier bullets.  Since gas checks are becoming more and more prohibitively priced, and a few shooters are asking if I can remove the check shank, I'll give a bit of information on the subject.

  I can cut a tiny bearing band IN the check shank, leaving a tiny lube groove, which works out well if the check shank is quite long.
  If the check shank is fairly short, the two options are to shorten the mold enough so the check shank is gone, and any decent machinist with a milling machine can do it.  The trick to not making burrs in the cavities are to fill the cavities with hard lead, clamp the mold in your milling vise, use a flat pin punch to upset the bullets a bit for an absolute tight fit in the mold. (Displaces metal to eliminate the bullet shrinkage.  Then, with a new razor sharp end mill, chase around each cavity so all burrs eliminate are thrown outward, but you won't be able to cut out all the way around both cavities.  The tight lead bullets minimize any burrs in these areas.
  The second option, with works with both long and short check shanks, is to shoot minus checks, which works great with all but the shortest bullets.  Best performance will be obtained when using in and out sizers and filling the check shank with bullet lube, then being half carefull not to knock it off when seating the bullets.

  I don't believe ND lapped this barrel.  If I could twist every bodies arms to make them firelap their guns I would do it and make them all my friends, and especially if they are going to shoot PB bullets.

  The best results I've seen with pb bullets, so far as accuracy and power, was with a 444, loaded for tight compression with 296 under a 280 gr WFN, cast of water quenched WW alloy, with LBT lube.  The barrel had been lapped until push throughs stayed tight and ran smoothly from breech to muzzle.  Velocity was a tad over 2400 fps, accuracy was consistently an inch or less at 100 yards, probably with 5 shot groups, and perhaps only three.  I shot the gun, offhand, and it was snappy for sure, with plenty of recoil for healthy strong bodies.  I don't reccomend that anyone try duplicating that performance, but am telling of it to let you know that plainbase bullets can perform remarkably well if the barrel, bullet lubricant, and bullet hardness are all top notch.
Veral Smith deceased 1/19/25

Offline ND Sharpshooter

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Re: 45-70 bullet for lesser recoil
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2007, 04:17:48 AM »
Greetings all,

Yes, Veral, I did lap the barrel using your lapping kit.  Shot some more groups yesterday in a 20 or so mph SSW wind---our range faces south so wind direction wasn't as big a deal as wind variations---using your 330 grainer and Soft Blue.  Used Federal 210M's this time instead of regular Fed 210's.  Went from 37 to 39 grains of 3031 in 1/2 grain increments weighed exactly as to weight.  38 1/2 and 39 grains did the best as far as groups and standard deviations...32.92 and 20.17 respectivly.  Average velocities are 1363.52 and 1381.59 again respectivly.  38.5 did a 3 1/5 inch group with one flier and 39.0 went 4.5 inches with 2 fliers.  Recoil is starting to get just a tad stiff at these loadings but not nearly as stiff as a 350 grainer at 1500 will be.  This load's recoil I can easily live with/tolerate. Also, shooting 50 shots in 2 hours or so gets to my shoulder so between the windy conditions and shooter "reflexes" I'm happy with the results.  39 grains of 3031 leaves 3/8 inch or so of space between the base of this bullet and the top of the powder. There is some unburned powder evident.  I should also mention that this mould lets the castings fall out with little or no tapping.  It's a good one, Veral, and that 330 grainer should go thru a deer the long way, right?  Hope this helps a bit.  Leo
Never said I didn''t know how to use one.  :wink:

Offline Veral

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Re: 45-70 bullet for lesser recoil
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2007, 04:40:15 PM »
It will go through any way you put it.  Don't bother to reload as hunting season is over when the hammer falls!
Veral Smith deceased 1/19/25