.30-30 Loads Chronied

[RickC.]

 I was able to get to the range (finally!) and see just what the 150 gr T/C Contender loads would do in my Handi.  It would be interesting to see just how close to 2500 fps I could get, staying within published loads.  This is the first round of tests, only 5 shot strings this time so this is not as thorough as I usually would be, but I just trashed 50 cases since they'd been loaded to the limit several times already and wanted to start with new brass.

 All loads used the Speer 150 gr BTSP, COAL 2.700", R-P brass (new, FL sized), WLR primers.  Load data for 3031 is from the IMR handbook, all other from the Speer manual #13:




 I don't know how well you can read this table since the forum resized it (I tried a few different sizes when I posted it, they all came out the same), but Plain Jane ol' 3031 is winning the velocity war so far.  H335, AA2460 and maybe Varget are next.


                     
                                                                     Rick

[quickdtoo]

If anyone can't read it, just right click the chart and save it, then open the saved file, it's very legible then.

Thanks for the report, Rick!!

Tim

[carbineman]

Rick A relative and myself have noticed fairly wide spread of velocity from one 30-30 to another in the NEF and H&R line. The older Toppers were even more wide spread. It seems if you get a "tighter chamber" and closer to spec barrel you can attain higher velocity with less powder. We even had a difference of 3 grains or more between rifles. So the old saying that each rifle is a book in itself holds even more true with the handi's and toppers.

Thanks for sharing the chart.

[Roudy]

Rick,
I started reloading for my 30-30 handi rifle nearly 30 years ago, was doing a lot of ground hog hunting then.  My all time favorite load was a 110 grain 30 cal bullet with 33 grains of IMR 3031.  The rifle and load are very accurate.  Never did chronograph it, but from your results I'm guessing the velocity was between 2500-2600 fps.

Roudy

[RickC.]

Roudy,

 Probably so, I get 2653 with the Hdy 130 gr and 36.0 3031.  I don't have any 110 grainers, or I'd load up a few and see what they do.  I have an old Shooting Times Rifles annual (1981 I think) where the author was getting around 2550 with 150 gr and 3031, 748, and BLC(2), but they're 2-3 grains over the max book loads I've seen.  You don't see articles like that now!


                                 Rick

[Jim Stacy]

An OLD JDJ American Handgunner article on the 14" 30/30 TC had a 150 going 2500 out of a 14" barrrel with 40/H4895/150 spz. Fired one to se what the pressure looked like . Giant fire ball but case came out of TC easily. Would not recommend this load but an example of how far some have takren the old 30. Most of the early TC loads went over max by more than 10% . Should not be a problem in a Handi. A 30/30 will tell you in a hurry if the pressures are getting up there by stick extraction.

[xhare]

I believe Shooting Times did an article on using the 3030 in a single shot a 1 or 2 years ago.  They used a TC G2 Contender with a 23 inch barrel.  They compared that with loads from a Marlin lever action and 20 or 22 inch barrel.  The loads used the same powders and charge weights, but the lever used round/flat noses while the TC used spitzers.  The best load in the TC was a load of H 4895 (34 grains I believe, it has been a while since I read the article) behind a hornady 150 grain SST.  It went just under 2500 fps, the same powder pushing a flat nose in the shorter Marlin barrel did about 2450 if memory serves.  They shot some 130's but velocities were not much higher, and I believe energies were lower a little lower, especially down range.  I liked how they got good velocities while staying within 3030 pressures.  3030 brass is to thin to lean on, even in a strong action.  Get a 308 if you want more.

 

[RickC.]

Yep, I agree, the thin brass is the Achilles' Heel, and even though the brass I threw away a couple of days ago showed no stretching, head expansion, etc., they had been loaded to T/C levels 7-8 times already and I didn't want to risk case failure.  With neck sizing, who knows how many more loads I'd have gotten from that brass, but why push it?



                                                                            Rick

[Paul5388]

I suppose using reformed .375 Win brass would solve the too thin problem, if you wanted to go to the trouble of reforming.   

[xhare]

If you reformed the thicker 375 Win brass, then you loose case capacity.  That leads to pressure changes, which means you have to be careful with your loads.  Again, probably just easier to go with a 308 and load down a bit to get "Super" 3030 loads.  Safer too! 

[Paul5388]

I really doubt there would be a safety issue with thicker brass in a Handi .30-30.  The brass is designed for 52,000 cup instead of 38,000 cup for the .30-30.  That's the same pressure the .308 is designed for and the barrel and receiver will easily handle that kind of pressure.  .30-30 brass is the same amount smaller as the .308 is smaller than a .30-06 and yet no one seems to mind loading a .308 to try to duplicate a .30-06.

I don't know if anyone has tried shooting .375 Win loads in a .38-55, but i don't think there would be a pressure problem.  Maybe a shoulder problem, with the steel butt plate, but everything else should handle it.  .38-55 brass is just slightly longer unformed .30-30 brass.

[Jim Stacy]

Paul points up an interesting fact of the transition of 3030->308->30/06. The new more dense ball powders can make a good jump in 308 performanceand probably a lot more in a 30/30  than most of us have tried.
I also have a 308 if I want to "kick it up a notch" as a guy on TV says.
My 30/30 has been troublesom but will work on it and do some of the accuracy modifications to see if it will group better before I shoot much more than cast bullets in it.I do know that 33.5/4198/130 Hdy SSP will shoot good but gives you some sticky extraction so with just an ejector that is the max for that load.

[Paul5388]

Jim,

It isn't just the ball powders, I checked some old DuPont IMR 4831 (made in the USA) in 6mm Rem brass and got 48.0 grs in it full to the case mouth (no drop tube).  Then I checked some of the new IMR IMR 4831 (made in Canada) and it held 52.0 gr in the same piece of brass.  That got my curiosity up, so I checked IMR 3031 and IMR 4350 the same way and found the old DuPont tube was always larger and less dense than the Canadian IMR powders of the same type.

I also shot some .375 Win brass in my .38-55 today without any problems.    I used a .380" bullet and didn't have any chambering problems.

Here's the actual numbers in a piece of R-P 6mm brass.
1974 DuPont 4831 48.4 gr
2003 IMR 4831 52.3 gr
1973 DuPont 3031 47.2 gr
2003 IMR 3031 49.7 gr.

I had some old DuPont 4350 loads, for my dad's 7mm Mag, I clocked and the new IMR 4350 was grain for grain an equivalent, even though the density was different.

[Jim Stacy]

Interesting ? Wonder if thye are putting less "filler material of some type in ". That is good news on the denser loads for 3031 and my 25/35 barrel --no not Handi --I wish. TC barrel. A 250 savage or a 25/35AI would make a great Handi barrel and shoot a whole lot better than most 25/06 's I have tried. Talk later.

[quickdtoo]

Jim, not to discourage your other .25 cal ideas, but most .25-06 Handis and Ultras are very accurate, some are very, very, very accurate!!

Tim

[Paul5388]

Jim,

The tube is smaller, kinda like Hodgdon's short cut powders, but it isn't the same as short cut.  That same R-P 6mm case held 53.5 gr of H4831SC.

Using the old IMR 4350, 68.0 gr would fill into the neck of the 7mm mag case, but the new IMR 4350 only fills down into the shoulder of the case with the same weight.  They clocked within 20 fps of each other loaded at the same weight.