Cast vs. Jacketed bullets for moose - Need help with my decision.

[Bossloper]

I drew a bull permit this year in Maine. I don't have any high power rifles (30-06, 308, 303, etc.), but I do have a couple of sweet Marlin Cowboy lever actions in 38-55 & 45-70. My wife is my sub-permitee and will be toting the 38-55 and I'll be using the 45-70. I shoot lead out of these exclusively, but since this is a chance in a life time hunt, I have been wondering if I should go with a jacketed bullet. My current plan for the 38-55 is to use a .285gr gas checked bullet going somewhere near 2000 fps. My game plan for the 45-70 is a 400gr gas checked bullet going around the same velocity. Both bullets have a BH of about 15. Since it's a Maine hunt, any shot will likely be under 100 yards, so should I stick with my game plan or go with some flat nose jacketed bullets like the Barnes original? What do you think?

[Darrell Davis]

Hey there Bossloper,

I would go with the cast boolits and never look back.

Providing of course you are using a boolit up to the task. Something with a LARGE meplat and cast from an alloy which will not fragment.

Lots of folk over on Cast Boolit forum and the Marlin rifles forum use the cast boolits with great results!!!!!!!!

Be'in an Ol'Coot, and having hunted with my own reloads since the 60s, and after doing a lot of reading on the forums, I decided that the one thing I could still do for hunting reloads, was make my own boolits.

So, -------- Picked up a RUGER #1-s, 45/70 in almost new condition and have been working on getting a good hunting load developed.

I did apply for my once in a life time cow moose permit again this year, no luck, - the once in a life time bull was down and eaten back 10+ years ago.

Anyway, I'm almost ready to thump something with a 350gr. LBT/WFN cast boolit.

Nothing against the folk here at GB, but there is a concentration of cast boolit shooters at the Cast Boolit and Marlin sites, and lots of good info to be shared.

Keep em coming!

CDOC

[BBF]

Some thoughts in random:

I have 2 45-70 (Handi) and never shot anything with them. Both shoot cast and jacketed  well enough to hunt with so I choose jacketed bullets because I was used to them. I did hunt and shoot several animals with a 444 with the 265 gr. Hornady bullet with good results and never used cast in that rifle.

Since you use cast exclusively in both rifles and the loads are fine for moose I would stick with that. BH 15 is good as well.

Count me as a cast boolit supporter.

[Graybeard]

The loads you mention should be just fine. For a big animal like moose I'd much rather use a good hard cast with a large meplat than a jacketed bullet in rifles of the type you are using or in handguns either.

Jacketed bullets are in my opinion the way to go with the rounds you mention that you don't own of course but in the larger bore slower rounds such as you will use and in handguns I want a good cast bullet.

[Bossloper]

Well, I've decided on the 45-70, but now it's between the Marlin 45-70 cowboy and my Buffalo Classic. There's this part of me that is leaning toward the BC. There's just something about it, maybe it's history of the single shot, but I will likely take both and decide each morning which is going that day. My wife is my sub-permitee, and she saw this as a chance to get a new rifle, so she now has a .308 that she's taking so the 38-55 will be staying home.

I picked up some Woodleigh 400 Grain Protected Round Point because of its ballistic coefficient of .340 (ballistics below). My current load is the Woodleigh 400gr over 46grs of Reloader 7, Starline brass and WLR primers. I shot them with both guns, but the pictures below are from the Buffalo Classic because I forgot the allen wrench to adjust the Marble's tang on my cowboy. After getting the BC on target I moved back to 100 yards. The three shot group is off of the bench and the six shot group is freehand.

I recovered two bullets that were shot at the 100 yard target, and they held their weight nicely and dug into the sandy/rocky bank about 18" or so. I have no idea about the velocity but I'm guessing it's near 1900 out of the 32" BC. The recoil wasn't terribly bad, and all in all I think that this load will do the job out of either rifle. They do not cycle in the cowboy, but if I trim a couple of pieces of brass to LeverEvolution length, I think I'll be able to get it to where they'll cycle. That way if I decide on the Cowboy I can have one chambered and one in the tube, but hopefully I'll only need one.

[BBF]

I'm confused now
Did you decide to go with a jacketed bullet instead of hard cast?
Those pointy Oz bullets are probably way more then you need for a Maine moose, however if it makes you happy why not.

PS. I just noticed the label on the bullet box, it reads 458 Mag. Do you have any idea what the lowest impact velocity is for those bullets to expand.

BTW I have been thru Maine but never hunted there. Judging by the terrain I have seen I would think you shooting distance for a moose would be inside of 100 yards. Even a low  ballistic. Co Eff. FN bullet like the 405 Rem or 400 gr Speer would not be a disadvantage and give you guaranteed expansion. A better Co Eff. is the 350 gr Hornady RN which needs a minimum MV of 1800 fps.

[Darrell Davis]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

Well, from the very limited number of "J" bullets you found, and their lack of impressive results, I'd still vote for a good cast boolit with a wide meplat.

Good ones start out better then end results shown

And like "scatterbrain", I wonder at the results to be expected from "THAT" jacketed bullet.

No offense intended on your choice of a single shot, as I am also a single shot fan - falling block, not break action - but it still seems to me the best choice in your situation is the Marlin with a quality cast boolit!

Be'in an Ol'Coot, I also wonder at the wisdom of switching between rifles during a hunt.  There is a great lot of positive to be said for consistancy during a hunt, in such things as ammo and rifle.

Keep em coming!

CDOC

[Bossloper]

You're confused, this is my first moose hunt and I have five weeks until the hunt and can't stop wondering about things. I can't argue anything that's been said, and agree with it all. I live in ME and hunting can be up close or far away. When you get up north there's a lot of property owned by lumber companies, and you can be in the thickets chasing something or 300 yards on the other side of a clear cut or down an old logging road when your opportunity presents itself. I'm trying to be ready for anything, so I wanted a bullet that could hold 2000 pounds of energy at 200 yards, just in case.

The bullets minimum expansion velocity is 1900, but I'm fine with a .458 hole through it. In fact, I'd prefer a nice pass through double lung hit. As to switching guns, I'll take both but likely only use one for the hunt. No point in not having a back up should something malfunction. I agree about the lever being the better choice, but there's just something about the single shot that tugs at me.

[Darrell Davis]

Be'in confused comes easy for us Ol'Coots

Yep, I understand the "tug" of the single shot,  Been there and done that a goodly number of times over the years, so it will be good to be back in the woods again this year with a #1.

This year, it will be with a cast 350gr LBT/WFN that is starting out at between 2100 & 2200fps.

I am hoping for something that will do me OK at 200yds. if the oppertunity is presented.

Keep em coming!

CDOC

[BBF]

Five weeks can be a long time or pass with blinding speed, it all depends on the situation

 Not in any particular order I offer these thoughts.

With a single shot rifle a pointy bullet is no problem, not so with a tubular magazine repeater unless you use that Hornady stuff.*

I've used original barnes Bullets in 30 and 35 cal and can tell you the pure copper jacket does foul your barrel in a hurry.

Needing 2000 lb/ft left at 200 yards requires  a MV of 2000 ft/sec from a 400 gr Speer or similar FN bullet with a Bal Co Eff of approx. .21

Looking at the 350 or 300 gr bullets, RN,HP or FN you can't get the 2000 ft/lb without going into Ruger/bolt Action pressure loads if at all.

* I don't have the ballistic info on those Hornady Leverevolution(?) handy but with the higher BC it could be the only jacketed bullet that gets you to your ft/lb and expand.


If you are willing to settle for something in the 1500 to 1800 ft/lb which IMO is perfectly adequate for Maine moose with a 45 cal bullet, you have a better choice.

Going with cast bullets is even more problematic unless you use a Postell style bullet. At a fast glance I found a Lyman mold(No457193) that casts a 405 gr  bullet(Allloy#2) that will  give you 2000 ft/lb at 200 yards if you can launch it at 2000 ft/sec however that requires top pressure (38,700 CUP)in this case.
 

[millwright]

     Last Maine moose for me was 830 dressed shot with 44 mag handgun with 240 hardcast 50 yd complete pass through dead moose two steps. Highly recommend hard cast.  My bullet was moving less than 1200 .

[BBF]

My guess is that you will more then likely have a close shot. BTW I'm working up courage to try cast myself this seaon, I expect a range of 50 yards or so for deer. Moose tags are rare in Nova Scotia for various reasons ,one that gets me hot under the collar are the Native hunters, no closed season and no bag limit for them

[millwright]

      Have been lucky with Maine moose permits, have had more than one.  Moose have been shot with 7mm mag jacketed, and 44 cast with handgun.  Depends on range, either works well 44 was with hard cast one shot dead moose.