Recently Acquired FA .454 Hurts

[alamogunr]

A few weeks back I posted that I was considering a used FA .454 Premier W/2 extra cylinders.  Well, I got it and after a few sidetracks, I got to take it to the range.  The only ammo I had was some Buffalo Bore
.45 Colt.  The load was 325 gr bullet @ 1350fps.  I have shot this in a Ruger Bisley Clement conversion and, while I felt the recoil, it wasn't too bad.  In the FA it hurt!  Specifically my middle finger.  Any ideas why it was worse in the FA??

I admit that I don't shoot heavy recoiling handguns on a regular basis but I'm not a small person.  Six ft 2 in and 215 lb with at least average hand strength.  I'm a little worried that I may have made a mistake and should have spent my money on another Clement or Bowen Bisley conversion to 5 shot .45 Colt.  I really don't have any need for one of the Linebaugh cartridges.
John

[Seporith]

John, No being smart but if you decide to sell it let me know. I love mine and am getting rid of my .44mag as a result. Thanks, Anthony                     seporith1000@hotmail.com

[Sverre A.]

"Any ideas why it was worse in the FA"

Because the Bisley-grip is better for your hand (and mine)!

When I shoot my Bisley in .45 LC with very hard loads - it`s "nothing" compared to my FA with similar loads.

But in the evenings - when I "touch and feel" my guns - FA is the winner.

[EdK]

I think Sverre likely hit the nail on the head. We go our entire lives shooting ill-fitting handguns in 22LR, 357mag and maybe somewheres around 44mag and then certainly upward we notice "it hurts".

I had a Ruger Redhawk for many years (my first 44) that was a particularly nice specimen and I sort of hated to get rid of it but in the end I did. Why? After switching between numerous aftermarket grips (wood, rubber/finger grooves & plain) I realized there was no way I was going to get that thing to fit my hand properly. It plain hurt to shoot. At the same time a 4" S&W 629 that is almost 10 oz lighter was no problem with the same loads. Yes, the recoil was maybe even more violent due to the weight reduction but the bottom line is that my hand did not hurt.

I actually didn't part with the Redhawk until experiencing this for a second time. I bought a SS Accusport special-run 5.5" Bisley in 45 Colt because that's what all of the big names base their 5-shots on. Guess what? Same thing (although not as bad). I think the Ruger Bisley grip frame shape may be well designed but maybe just too plain big for me although maybe just right for you. The Ruger Super Blackhawk grip frame remains the best fit among Ruger SAs for me. That Bisley is gone now too.

So John the moral to the story is "one size does not fit all". Chances are if you and I just blindly swapped shoes and walked a few miles our feet would hurt. Even though I am also 6'2" (although 240 lbs) chances are we do not have exactly the same shoe size. While they may be close enough by chance that we could get away with casually walking around the yard (shooting a 22LR), a 10 mile test would likely bring us to tears (shooting the 454).

Glove makers do not make "one size fits all" gloves but firearms makers do that. For 99% of the time they can get away with it but surely a FA 454 represents the 1% or less case. Fortunately for me the model 83 grip frame is a good fit...

Think about it: any caliber you could want, any barrel length you could want, fixed sights/basic adjustables/express/silhouette, round/octagonal  barrel ... just one grip frame

[alamogunr]

Seems to be sort of a concensus here that the FA may not be the best fit for me.  I'm going to keep trying  and I guess I could just shoot .45 Colt (regular, not Buff Bore) and .45 ACP but that would be a waste.  I'll give it a little while longer and then decide what to do.  I will try one box of .454 Casull but I intend to use gloves when I do.
Thanks for the responses.

John

[Cowboybart]

The first time I shot my non-ported FA 454 I thought the gun was going to come apart.  No mechanical thing could repeatedly take that and keep going.  I stopped shooting at 25 rounds (FA factory amoo - when they used to make it).  I now can go thru a box and don't start flinching until round 80 or so.    Opposite of you, my Bowen-Bisly in 475 Linebaugh is brutal!!!   Usually 15 rds is all I call fun.   
Put 200 rds thru it, if it still hurts - send it down the road and get a Clement.   Good Luck.

[Dusty Miller]

It feels good when it hurts!

[dubber123]

If you aren't already, get a Past recoil glove.  I always hated "sissy gloves" but after a year with my .475, I started using one.  They have a longer middle finger to help with the recoil.  I'd hate to see you get rid of a nice gun too soon.

[WL44]

I recall a post before the forum changes about controlling / dealing with FA recoil. Unfortunately the "search" function no longer works, so I can't dig about and post the link.

Maybe someone here recalls the details?

It had something to do with trying a different grip and apparently the advice was provided when someone called Freedom Arms and chatted to the guy on the other side of the line and mentioned recoil at some point.

If the post is lost in cyberspace maybe you can call FA and ask them... and post the response for all our beneifts 

Wim

[MarkH]

Try a lower and very firm grip - let your little finger just straddle the lower edge of the gripframe.  I've seen some people who did not fancy the recoil of the 454 and particularly the whacking of their middle finger take this advice from Bob Baker and were very pleased with the effect.

If that doesn't do it for you, I would try a glove or wrapping your middle finger.  If that still doesn't work ... well ... the FA gripframe is not for everybody.  I know some very very seasoned shooters that just flat hate it 

[alamogunr]

Try a lower and very firm grip - let your little finger just straddle the lower edge of the gripframe.  I've seen some people who did not fancy the recoil of the 454 and particularly the whacking of their middle finger take this advice from Bob Baker and were very pleased with the effect.

If that doesn't do it for you, I would try a glove or wrapping your middle finger.  If that still doesn't work ... well ... the FA gripframe is not for everybody.  I know some very very seasoned shooters that just flat hate it 

Thanks for the advice and info.  As I mentioned in my original post, I was using some Buffalo Bore .45 Colt rounds since I didn't have any .454 on hand yet.  I'm going to split the rest of the box between the FA and the Clement Bisley conversion (six shot) and compare the two.  I'll also try the different grip and gloves on the FA.  Although it helps to know I'm not alone, I would prefer that I didn't have the problem.  If this doesn't work, I'll try to convert the FA back to cash and see about another conversion.

[RJM]

EdK..Well I am glad I am not alone in not having the Ruger Redhawk fit...I tried EVERY grip made and the only one that did fit was the factory original stocks and they hurt to shoot heavy cast loads with so the gun and 5 or 6 extra sets of grips went down the road.

As to the Bisley vs. FA debate...I find that the Bisley smacks me right in the center of the plam whereas the FS "rolls" more like a Colt SAA. As a result all my Bisley framed guns were sold off and the one that was kept was a FAs.

In the 70s and 80s I had mostly .44s with a few .41 Magnums thrown in. By the 90s the .44s were all gone and the .41s growning in number. In 2000 I bought a FA 6" .454 with extra .45 Colt cylinder to use in Africa in 2001. But the more I shot the gun the more I realized that eventually it was going to start some possibly irreverable damage to shooting my hand and arm joints. After reading several accounts of long term heavy handgun shooters and emailing with several the .454 was replaced with an identical gun in .41 Magnum.

If it hurts when you shoot it, your body is trying to tell you something...Bob

[haroldclark]

I agree with RJM.  I have been shooting handguns for 50 plus years.  I have had a limit on pain/fun inflicted upon my elbows, wrists and hands by the lowly 44 Magnums.  I encourage people to shoot and I work as the Range Officer at my local Range Playground.  We will have between 80 and 150 shooters a day on the weekend.  I have seen thumbs dislocated and much other pain self induced by men with guns over 44 Magnum in caliber.

I'm 71 years old and I have yet to figure why anyone would want to shoot any handgun that hurts your body.  Being a macho man is the only reason that I can figure.  Man still beats on his chest and drags his knuckles on the ground like our anscestors for some reason.  I suggest that you learn to shoot very well with a more suitable handgun and work on shot placement for your needs.

I would want to put a damper on anyone's fire, but if your want rifle power, buy a rifle and get over it.

Harold Clark

[alamogunr]

I agree with RJM.  I have been shooting handguns for 50 plus years.  I have had a limit on pain/fun inflicted upon my elbows, wrists and hands by the lowly 44 Magnums.  I encourage people to shoot and I work as the Range Officer at my local Range Playground.  We will have between 80 and 150 shooters a day on the weekend.  I have seen thumbs dislocated and much other pain self induced by men with guns over 44 Magnum in caliber.

I'm 71 years old and I have yet to figure why anyone would want to shoot any handgun that hurts your body.  Being a macho man is the only reason that I can figure.  Man still beats on his chest and drags his knuckles on the ground like our anscestors for some reason.  I suggest that you learn to shoot very well with a more suitable handgun and work on shot placement for your needs.

I would want to put a damper on anyone's fire, but if your want rifle power, buy a rifle and get over it.   

Harold Clark

Thanks for the reply and the insights, Harold.  I'm 64 and my main point was that the load that "hurt" in the FA was no problem in a Ruger Bisley .45 Colt conversion.  When I bought the gun I did not intend to shoot many full power .454 Casull loads in it.  Therefore the extra cylinders were a plus for me despite the fact that I could down load .454 brass.  Another reason was the obvious quality that is built into FA handguns.  Still I would like to be able to shoot full power loads occasionally without pain.  So, until I can find someone that wants this gun, I will use the Bisley .45 and load it both light and heavy and enjoy.

By the way, my arms are fairly long but my knuckles haven't dragged the ground in several years. 

John

[targetshootr]

I heard or read that FA suggests you hold the grip higher than normal. Dont remember where
I saw it, probably in a magazine, but the advice was from the owner, Mr Baker, iirc. Your 325gr load is stiff, the kind I rarely shoot being the squeamish sort. Most days mine uses the 45 colt cylinder with a 250 gr 45 Keith at 1000 fps or less so I can shoot all day if I wanna. My Clements 44 Bisley is a nice gun but it feels fat in my hands whereas the FA fits like a glove.

On another Bisley I took out some of the inside of the grip frame to give it more of an xr3 contour and it made a big difference how it feels in my medium size hands.

[alamogunr]

Well, Folks.  I have reconsidered my plan to sell the FA 83.  It has been made obvious to me that I would have to take a bigger hit on price than I want.  I don't need the $  and I am overwhelmed by the quality that is built into this firearm.  For now the .45 Colt  and the .45 ACP cylinders will get a workout while I occasionally try .454 loads with gloves or a different grip.  A little pain every now and then won't kill me and if I don't try to shoot too many at one time, I should be able to resist a flinch.  If I can't, those other cylinders are always available to worik out of it.  Thanks again for all the suggestions.

Targetshooter:
I have looked at your Bisley stocks several times, but my hand size is such that chopping on them would be counterproductive.  It does give me the incentive to whittle on a set of S&W Magna stocks on a .38 Spec I have had for awhile.  I just hate those stocks and their flair at the bottom.  Sorry for straying to another subject on this forum.
John

[shilo]

I have a Ruger Bisley in 44 mag and a 83 FA in 454. Both have 7.5" barrels. Max load 300gr WFN out of the 44 @ 1300fps. A 270gr load out of the 454 @ 1600fps. I fine the FA to be more comfortable.

[TommyD]

I have never had a chance to fire a Bisley, but I find that the FA 83 fits my hand quite well. My perception of the recoil is less than the Ruger Super Redhawk. I must admit that although both guns are .454, I shoot almost exclusively 45 colt. With a leather shooting glove I am quite comfortable shooting the 300 grain bullets at 1100 fps all day long. Granted, these loads are quite light compared with the full house .454, but will easily take any game i am likely to see in the Buffalo, NY region. And I like the 2 inch groups I can shoot at 50 yards with it.

I like the Uncle Mike's glove not for the recoil, but because when the revolver rolls in my hand, the sharp edges of the metal abraid the skin on the side of my thumb. Why is it that machinists take such pride in machining sharp 90 degree edges?

I think that everybody's hand is a bit different, and you have to find a grip that fits your hand. And the FA 83 is much better for my hand than the Ruger Blackhawk. Never had the opportunity to try a Bisley, though.

Tom

[454PB]

I've beat my hands up pretty good over the last 35 years of big bore handgunning. I don't understand why wearing a good shooting glove (I like Uncle Mike's) is a problem for some shooters. You wouldn't shoot a 375 H&H without a recoil pad, at least not during range work, and you also wear hearing and eye protection. To me it's a no-brainer to protect your hands too, they are just as important as hearing and seeing.