Newbie-reloading 45-70

[flattail]

Joined the forum yesterday after discovering it a couple of weeks ago.  I have owned a SS 45-70 Guide gun for a couple of years without shooting it much.  3 weeks ago I bought a 45-70 Handi rifle on impulse, and I love shooting it.  However, the last box of Remington express 405 gr soft point that I bought cost me $27.50 plus tax.  I want to shoot the Handi rifle a lot, so I am looking at reloading, something I have never done and know almost nothing about (I don't have anybody local who reloads to get tips from).  At this point I am planning to keep it real simple, reloading brass from rounds that I fired out of the Handi, and usring the reloads in the Handi only.  With that in mind, I bought a Lee Classic reloading kit ($13.95 Cabelas mail order). This kit is supposed to contain everything you need to reload a single caliber.  Now I have a few questions that I know the talent on this forum can answer, if you don't mind.  1) What else do I really need? I am thinking at least a case trimmer, primer pocket cleaner, and something () to determine what my overall length is.  2) I need all my fingers, etc., so I am wondering if it is dangerous.  For instance, seating the primer, knocking the shell case loose from the resizer with the primer in it, seating the bullet by tapping on it over a fully loaded round, etc.  If I happen to detonate the primer while seating it, will the explosion be enough to get me injured? I am hoping that you will think I am being overly cautious, but I need to know.  3) The instructions I got with this kit are a little vague for me.  For instance, it says I need to Chamfer the case neck.  I don't even know what that means. Any help on these points would be much appreciated.  Thanks.

[jpsmith1]

I have no idea what your budget is, but I'd suggest a hand priming tool for openers.  I've never used a lee classic, but I know about what they are and there is a lot of pounding involved.  A hand priming tool will allow you to prime a bunch of brass QUIETLY and SAFELY.  I usually do this while watching TV in the evenings.  A half hour show can net you 100 primed cases easily.

I do clean primer pockets, but that is often a subject for debate.  I use the RCBS tool that came with my kit, but have lately been looking into automating the process with a drill mounted brush because that is rough on the wrists after 400 or 500 cases in an evening.

As for length, using the rounds in a single shot will maybe give you a bit more latitude in OAL.  The lever action gun is more finicky about length because of the feeding mechanism.  Generally, I think that 45-70 bullets have a cannelure or criming groove.  Seating bullets to there should ensure proper OAL within a couple thousandths.

Something else to consider that just dawned on me.  I think that the lee kits use a powder dipper rather than a scale.  GET A SCALE!!!!  I know that some people use dippers and that most powder measures are based on volume type measuring of powder, but you probably aren't that good.  Measure the powder out with the dipper onto a scale pan to verify correct charge weight.

Chamfering the case neck means to cut a small angle on the inside of the neck.  Kind of like a funnel.  It helps to guide the bullet properly into the case.  There are tools to do this by all major manufacturers or you can use a countersink tool, available at any hardware store. 

As far a bullet seating, a properly seated primer should be .003" top .005" BELOW flush.  Just enough to feel that it's lower than the head of the case.  While beating on bullets wouldn't be my first choice of hobby, I think it's probably safe enough as long as you don't stand the case on a nail while doing so.

A lot of people got their start using a lee classic, you will probably eventually expand your reloading tool collection until using a lee classic kit is a fond memory.

[MSP Ret]

I started reloading with a Lee Loader when I was about 18, now 44 years later I still have that loader and many more plus a couple of presses and die sets. I also have several more Lee Loaders and all my 45/70 loading is done with a Lee Loader. It's simple and safe. I have never had an accidental primer discharge nor any accidents of any sort. Just be careful and double check your work. A 44 year safety record would make me believe that reloading and the Lee Loaders (Classic) are a safe way to go and a great inexpensive way to get into reloading. I suggest my favorite 45/70 load to start, 28.0 grains of 2400 behind a 350 grain Hornady RN (.458) or even better a 350 grain Hornady FP (.458) if it is available, easy to shoot, and very accurate. The scale is not necessary to start but I also would suggest getting one, I have one and use it unless I am at camp and want to load up some extra rounds, then I just use the dippers. I also would suggest a hand primer and some day I might get one myself, have been meaning to for the last 40 years or so, just never seemed to get around to it . Remember, consistancy in reloading transfers into increased accuracy, and although you will easily get by for hunting accuracy on deer sized game out to 100-150 yards with the dippers for real target work a scale should help. Many early BP shooters fired wonderfully small and accurate groups and harvested much game without the use of scales or dippers, just be as consistant as possible in your reloading practices. Best of luck and have fun....<><....

P.S. - as far as the directions seeming vague, they are easy and simple, just take it one step at a time and don't try to look top far into it. After you load your first round you will smile and say to yourself, this is so SIMPLE. OAL is not as critical in the Handis and for non maximum loads (the 2400 load I suggested) you will get several loads from each piece of brass without any trimming, them if you have a problem you could just trim with a file. KISS!!! (keep it simple stupid) I like the simplicity of both the Handi's and the Lee Loaders. I have also hung up my compound bows and gone back to a wooden longbow built by a friend and wooden arrows I make myself from store bought dowels or cedar or some ash and have hunted hogs in Texas as well as New England Whitetails with my longbow and have watched a bear beneath me while longbow hunting but elected to not shoot (to small). I seem to be regressing and going back to a simpler time of life, that is why I also enjoy the more traditional ML's, my TC Renegades and my TC Cherokee. Buy the Lee Loader, try it and I am sure you will see how easy it is....<><....

[Datil]

 Number 1 Welcome a bourd to the home of the crazy Handi-holics.
 MSP- Ret. is correct about reloading Lee classic load, been using over 40 yrs.
 45-70 is all I use. I have a set dies for it now. will not use them, just lee.
 never trimed 45-79 brass. Take care Read info with the loader and get a
 good reloading manuel, Don't feel about asking questions that's what we here for.
 most of us. Marv.

[Ranger J]

Like a lot of others I started on a Lee classic.  Unlike some of them I have had a primer or two detonate while I was seating it.  It probably will not hurt you but it will scare the bedazzles out of you if it happens.   I got a Lee Auto Prime and now avoid the possibilities.  If you shoot much you will probably want to get a press.  Unless you shoot a lot a simple one stage press and a set of dies will serve you well.  You may have entered on the slippery road of reloading from which there is no escape.
RJ

[FLNT4EVR]

Many years ago I to used the Lee loader for my 45-70 and was quite impressed by it's simplicity ,and the good quality handloads it was capable of making.I never had a mishap with it but I did eventualy get a powder scale and was then able to tailor my loads a bit. Like  Ranger J said, once you start reloading it's  (almost)  as addicting as Handi rifles.

[quickdtoo]

Welcome aboard!! I too started with the 45-70 Lee Loader just a couple years ago, but I soon started loading for a bunch more calibers and bought a press, but for a starter for one or 2 calibers, it's a great way to get your feet wet. Here's some reading for ya if you want more on the Lee Loader or help in deciding what you really need if you want to get more involved in handloading.

Tim

http://home.earthlink.net/~dannewberry/dannewberrysoptimalchargeweightloaddevelopment/id7.html

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/51

[flattail]

Thanks for the info from all of you.  Like MSP Ret, I like the simple, primitive aspect (I have a recurve bow, not a compound).  I'm going to stick with the Lee Classic for a while.  And Tim (quickdtoo), the links you included are great. Thanks a bunch guys.

[canon6]

flattail,welcome and like quick and MSP I started on a Lee loader,I would suggest a hand priming tool and a Lee case length guage and trimmer.It will speed thing up a bunch  Hope this helps   Doug

[Ed Hill]

Like Cannon6 says, the Lee case length gauge and trimmer will keep your cases the proper length and they're cheap. Also get the Lee chamfer tool, and the Lee primer pocket cleaner and you are set for case prep. If you will be loading lead bullets, you will also need the neck expander Lee sells to go with the Lee Loader. You have to order from Lee, about $4. I'd get a scale so you can load any bullet/powder combo you want, and pick up a caliper to measure over-all length.
Have Fun!
Ed

[MSP Ret]

I got thinking about this so before my wife and I went out to a friends for dinner tonight I loaded up a box of 45/70's for this years hunting season with my Lee Loader. 10 rounds of 350 grain Hornady RN ahead of 28.0 grains of 2400 and an additional 9 rounds of 350 Grain Hornady FP's ahead of 28.0 grains of 2400 and 1 500 grain lead bullet ahead of 39.0 grains of 3031 just for the heck of it.I chose these loads since my 45/70 is all sighted in and I know where these hit at 50 and 100 yards. It was a simple job with the Lee loader and a scale....<><....  

[Dillohide]

I've loaded with the Lee Classic Loader for years ... started in the 70's. Eventhough I have a press I still use the Lee Loaders a lot. It's perfectly safe including the primer and bullet seating operations, just follow the instructions.

The only thing I can add that hasn't been mentioned, unless I missed it, is a mallet with a hard plastic head on it. Don't use a hammer.

[MSP Ret]

Your correct on not using a metal faced hammer Dillohide but I have seen some old Lee Loaders that have obviously been hit with a hammer many times!! I have used several things but never a plastic (or metal) faced hammer, to cheap to buy a special plastic faced hammer I guess. I have even used a piece of split maple firewood at camp once, and have recently been useing a old hickory hammer handle that broke off right at the head of the hammer. For a couple of years before the hammer broke I was using a 2" diameter piece of hardwood dowel about 15" long that I had left over from a project. Someday I may invest in a plastic faced hammer but am a bit worried how the plastic face would hold up. I realize that replacment plastic hammer face pieces are available that just screw into the hammer head body and replace the beat up piece but I enjoy getting by with what I have on hand. With what I have been using when they get to the point that they no longer work well they just get burned in the fireplace or woodstove and another item gets substituted for the "persuader/pounder"....<><....  

[Rustyinfla]

 Some of the most accurate loads I've ever reloaded came out of a Lee Loader. I once fired three rounds out of my .30-30 Contender that I could cover with a dime. That was a Speer 150 gr. Spire point over 28 grains of 3031.
   I have a Lee Loader for every caliber I shoot.
   I've found one way to cut down on a noise a bit is to place a cheep paperback book on my leg and pound on the die there instead of using a bench. I'd rather use a cheep screwdriver to clean primmer pockets than the tools that Lee sells as it's easier to hold.

  If you go to www.castbullet.com you can see a lot of things Junior does on the cheap and easy. He shows how to reload with a Lee Loader while in a tent.
  Junior also has done tests and will prove to you that the Lee dippers are more accurate than any other method you'll find to use if you'll get you technique down. I use a "Correl" coffee cup that had a perfectly round bottom. One pass thru the powder with the dipper then strike off the top with a knife blade. You can get the whole set of Lee dippers for about $5 or so and they come with a sliding chart that will tell you what any dipper in the set will throw with a given powder.

  Rusty <><

[Dillohide]

Someday I may invest in a plastic faced hammer but am a bit worried how the plastic face would hold up.

I've used my mallet close to 20 years now without a problem. Before that I used anything I could get my hands on including one of the kids wooden baseball bats. It wasn't a big bat. Can't remember where I got that mallet, think it was at a hardware store. I say the head is plastic ... it's a clear yellow color and pretty darned tough. Just the right weight for wacking the Loader tool. The handle is about the size of a small nail or tack hammer handle.

[GeorgiaDave]

Hello from Georgia,

   I have been using the Lee hand press for many years and have grown quite fond of it. It will accept regular reloading dies and once you get the process set up, it is actually very time efficient. I have a turret press set up in my shop but don't always use it when I have all the dies set for the hand press. I can sit down at my kitchen table (or in the motel room when working out of town) and load 60 rounds in a few hours. It is not as easy as the turret, but it is completely portable and with a bit of practice can produce some incredibally accurate loads.

   I also suggest the Lee dipper set. It comes with a set of 10 ? dippers and a table for all common powders. I have tested the accuracy of the dippers on my powder scale and found that if you take a big fat scoop and level it off with a playing card they will duplicate the charge very closely. Match grade measurements they are not, but well within the requirements for hunting loads. I think the set I bought a few years ago costed less than $15. The press with one set of dies sells for around $40.

   As for the priming requirements I absolutely LOVE my Lee Auto-prime. I have the complete set of shellholders and once set up I can prime 100 cases in just a few minutes with every one of them the same. This is one of the most efficient reloading tools that I have. I understand that Lee now has a new and improved model, but the original works fine. I am not sure of the price but I know that it is reasonable.
   I feel that for someone getting started reloading that this set up is great. As soon as you have the press, all that is needed is the next set of dies. The dippers and autoprime will work for averything from the dimunitive .22 Hornet up to the ThunderBoom Magnums.

   Good Luck gettting started, but be aware that you are flirting with becoming a "ReloadingHandiHolic"

Dave

[Grizz_]

Have fun with the reloading. I have 2 primary safety rules.

1. Never put a bullet in an uncharged case.
2. Never put a bullet in an overcharged case.

These 2 rules can prevent just about every conceivable danger.

I prime with a Lee primer.
I chamfer with a pocket knife.
I use a Lee case length tool to keep all the cases the same length.
I use a scale and weigh every charge.
After I put the powder in I seat the bullet.
  This way I don't have any cases that could be double charged, but I have short charged one or two.

Just go slow until your hands learn their jobs, and pay attention. It's boring and it's easy to be distracted.

Best,

Grizz