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Offline Sourdough

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Long Range Gun For Hunting
« on: January 06, 2006, 04:59:35 PM »
I'm interested in building a rifle for shooting out beyond 600 yards.  From 700 to 1000 yards.  Gun needs to be capable of making a clean kill on Caribou size game at those ranges.  Currently use a 30-06, and make kills at 500 and 600 yards consistantly.  Have knocked down Caribou at 700 yards, but I feel it just don't have the energy left when it gets there at ranges beyond 600 yards.  Caribou will not be the target, wolves will.  Wolves are hard to approach and get close to.  They can hear a snowmachine coming a long way off and start running.  Often we can walk over a mountain top and see them at 800 and 900 yards but as soon as we cross the top we are seen and they take off.  If we try and work around to get within range they always seem to know we are there about 700 yards out.  They always stop and look at us about 900 to 1000 yards out.

The question is what caliber would do that job.
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Offline killdeer

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« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2006, 05:40:53 PM »
Sourdough,  
 beg, borrow, or steal a 300 rum CDL and shoot it if you haven't already.
I think you will be very surprised at how comfortable it shoots and your requirements will really put the rum to good use. I think the 180 grn swift scirroco will buck the wind pretty well for you and if you like it you may find other uses for it as well. :D
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Offline killdeer

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« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2006, 05:45:18 PM »
By the way Sourdough,
 I really enjoyed reading your stories.  
Thanks    
   Killdeer
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Offline Nobade

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« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2006, 02:04:25 AM »
A 6.5mm with good bullets. I'd go with a .260 Rem myself. It'll have no problem killing a wolf at 1000 yards and is going to hit a lot harder out there than even that 300 RUM is, unless you set the RUM up to shoot 240 gr. match bullets. Use Sierra 142's or Lapua 139 Scenars in the 260 and you'll be amazed at what it will do way out there. A 243 or 6mm Rem set up to use 115 DTAC bullets will also work wonders.
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Offline Thebear_78

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« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2006, 02:45:24 AM »
I was checking out some ballistics on the two and can't quite figure out how the 260 hits harder at 1000 yards than the 300 RUM.  I ran the numbers using the lapua scenar bullet, 139 for the 260, and 155 for the RUM.  The RUM is runing nearly 900fps faster out of the muzle than the 260.

I have settled on the 338 RUM as my long range hunting rifle.  Shooting the 225gr accubond at 3140fps it has plenty of reach and power for carabou at any range.  I have found the RUMs to be pretty easy to reload for but they need a lot of barrel length to live up to thier potential.  

You might also look into the Lazeroni line of cartridges.
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Offline killdeer

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« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2006, 05:11:19 AM »
That's a joke , right?
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Offline Sourdough

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« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2006, 09:02:23 PM »
My neighbor has a .300 RUM.  I've shot it and his .338 RUM.  So far I have not been impressed.  Maybe it's his handloads, I don't know.  But they just don't live up to what I was expecting.  My TCR in .338Win Mag is better in my hands than the RUMs.
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Offline roper

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« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2006, 04:13:16 AM »
Go over to www.longrangehunting.com might be the place to help you out.
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Offline Nobade

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« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2006, 02:40:21 AM »
No, Killdeer, it's not a joke. I would not be trying to shoot an elk at 1000 yards with a 260, but after watching the difference between a large number of rifles hitting LaRue poppers out to better than 1200 yards, I can say with certainty that a 6.5 using 139 scenars or 142 Matchkings is hitting harder than a 30 using 175 Matchkings. Even if the 30 is going several hundered feet per second faster at the start. But the point is, who wants to sit behind a 300 RUM all day and take the punishment? And pay for 90+ grains of powder each shot? If you want more hit, a 6.5-06 or a 6.5X284 will provide all you could want. But they're really overkill for a guy trying to kill a dog at long range. But I certainly encourage anyone who wants to shoot the huge cartridges to go ahead and do so, because I sell a whole lot of muzzle brakes and new barrels to those folks.
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Offline killdeer

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« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2006, 06:33:47 PM »
Nobade,
  preference for a milder cartridge is one thing but I've yet to comprehend how a 260 is delivering more energy at 1k than a 300 rum shooting a 180 scirocco.   Please enlighten me.....
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Offline Don Fischer

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« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2006, 06:41:55 AM »
I'm not by any means a fan of this ultra long range stuff but I think people will do it anyway. I guess it's best to try and give an opinion based on whats possible.

If I were going to build a rifle for that stuff, I'd go with one of three; a 6.5 Weather-Wright-Hoyer, a 6.5-06 Gibbs or a 264 Win Mag (that's last choice). For a bullet I'd look to the 140gr or I think Norma used to make a 156gr I'd try. I'd chose a M700 action or an L61 Sako action and a med weight custom barrel at a min 26". I'd want the finished rifle to be a min 8 pounds.

The long barrel will make better use of those overbore cases and the weight of the rifle will make it easier to hold on those long shots. The 6.5 firing 140 and 156 gr bullet's in an 8 pound rifle will make it much easier on the shooter when he's practicing, and I sure hope you do a lot of that.

According to Hornady the 264 Winchester will fire a 140 gr bullet at 3100 fps from a 24" barrel. With a 500 yd zero, it'll be15.5" high at 300 yds. The 140gr A-Maxhas a BC of .550. For comparisson, a 190gr Hornady BTSP has a BC of .491. Your are talking about ranges where BC's mean something. The 140gr bullet arrives at 500yds with1427 ft lbs e. The muzzle e is 2987 ft lbs. The 190gr 30cal at the same muzzle vel reaches 500yds with 2020ft lbs e has 4054 ft lbs muzzle e.    The 30 cal is shedding energy faster even tho it's 50 grs heavier!  I doubt sectional density will have much to do with anything at 600 yds.

I guess I don't need to say that if a caribou has say a 16'' chest (maybe more or less) at 300yds, it has the same 16" chest at 700yds. Few people can make a true 1" @ 100yd rifle shoot into the same 1" at 700 yds! Unless your going to call 7" @ 700 yds a 1" group? I certaiinly hope you practice a lot.
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Offline Don Fischer

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« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2006, 06:47:55 AM »
Come to think of it, I'd hope Bufflo Bob would weigh in on this. I believe he's done this stuff and I believe he's got his duck's in a row. Most of the rest of us read books and are wanna-be's!
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Offline Sourdough

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« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2006, 02:25:17 PM »
Have pretty much decided on a .338-378Wtby.  Looking for the longest barrel I can get between 28" and 32" if possiable.  The 200gr bullet looks most promising but will test them all.  I get lots of practice, I shoot three times a week at the range.  I also hunt three to four days a week during the spring, summer, and fall.  Thinking about rebarreling a Ruger #1 to .338-378.
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Offline killdeer

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« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2006, 04:09:38 PM »
Sounds like a great woof buster.   Can't wait to read the tales.......
                           
                               KD
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Offline SeekHer

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« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2006, 10:42:51 PM »
Quote from: Sourdough
Have pretty much decided on a .338-378Wtby.  Looking for the longest barrel I can get between 28" and 32" if possiable.  The 200gr bullet looks most promising but will test them all.  I get lots of practice, I shoot three times a week at the range.  I also hunt three to four days a week during the spring, summer, and fall.  Thinking about rebarreling a Ruger #1 to .338-378.


As mentioned earlier, go over to www.longrangehunting.com forum and check out a smith by the name of Kirby Allen, an absolute genius for long range cartridge design and construction of hunting rifles...he has been working on a cartridge, that I'm most interested in, called the .338 KAMagnum based somewhat on the .408 Chey-Tac cartridge with better accuracy, velocity and energy...I'm wanting mine for extreme long range (2,500+yds :eek:) targets and maybe some varmint shooting and it will do it in spades...I am not at liberty to divulge his e-mail, without his permission, so contact him through the forum, you will not be displeased...his workmanship is excellent, his prices extremely reasonable and you have a completely custom rifle...or he'll work on your own rifle...
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Offline MarlinMan

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« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2006, 10:24:28 AM »
The .338-.378 will do exactly what you want to do with those wolves.We been bustin whitetails out to 1400 yards with that round.
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Offline Varmint Hunter

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« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2006, 01:09:04 PM »
I'm not a big fan of the super-duper-magnum-smasher cartridges. However, 1,000yds is a loong way and you need some down range energy.

I have had very good luck with a custom 7 STW and the 162gr A-Max bullet (B/C .625) The A-Max should be very effective on wolves @ extended range.
BANG - FLOP :shock:  Easy on the shoulder too.
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Offline Sourdough

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« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2006, 07:44:29 PM »
After doing a lot of research, I have decided I need a minium of a 225gr bullet, prefferiably a 250gr, in .338 dia.  So it will be a .338-378Wtby, or a .338 Lupia.  7MM just is too light, not enough energy left past 700 yards.
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Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline SeekHer

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« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2006, 02:03:56 AM »
Then go with the .338 Lapua...stock cartridge/rifle whereas the Weatherby is more of the custom route...

Did you try Kirby Allen for his .338 KAM, you won't be disappointed...
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Offline IOWA DON

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« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2006, 11:51:22 AM »
I had a .338/.378 Weatherby Accumark rebarreled with a Shilen 28-inch barrel (.700 at the muzzle). I thought about the .300/.378 but a technician at Nosler said that the greater frontal area of the .338/.378 would result in more killing power at long ranges where bullets would not expand as much. He also said that the .338/.378 would have sufficient velocity to expand their 225 grain Accubond to at least 800 yards. It has a 4.5-14X50 Leupold scope which I had Premier Reticles modify with their range compensating dots. I sight it in for 300 yards with the main crosshairs and their are range conpensating dots for 400, 500, 600. 700 and 800 yards. Iowa had its first rifle season for deer this winter (does only) so I got to test it out. I got a couple short range ones and also ones at 420, 440, 475, 555, and 620 yards. Between a laser rangefinder and the range compensating dots holding for trajectory is relatively easy. Windage is much more difficult as a 10 mph crosswind will drift the bullet 20 inches at 600 yards. There were high winds some days so I had to pass on a number of shots. It would be nice if there were a good game bullet with a much higher balistic coeficient to significantly reduce wind drift. Also, if one does not need to carry the gun much a heavier barrel would be better as it does not have a muzzle break and kicks a lot!
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