Author Topic: Vertical change in groups...barrel or frame? (Read 831 times)

VolFan9183 · « **on:** March 05, 2006, 04:31:55 PM »

Hi folks-

I know there have been numerous threads on vertical stringing...but this seems to be a little different.

I'm on my 2nd 7mm-08 barrel (first one threw shots absolutely everywhere), and this one is grouping decently at around 1.5". My problem, however, is that the groups seem to change vertically from range session to session. For instance, I went to the range 2 weeks ago and shot my best group ever with this rifle, .75" at 100 yards, and was dead on the "cross hairs" on the target. I had put metal washers under the barrel before that session and felt that I had cured my problem. I went back today and gave up from frustration after my first 2 groups, both were about 1.5" and were about 4" high.

I am putting the bags right against the trigger guard, and don't feel like I have changed where I am putting my cheek against the stock. I have a Remington 788 in .308 that I also shot both weeks and it was dead on every time, which makes me think I'm not changing anything.

I'm going to Illinois this Fall for a blackpowder hunt, and was going to buy a new Encore barrel for the hunt. After all of this, I'm seriously considering selling this rifle and buying an Omega. Does anyone have any suggestions before I take this step? I'm shooting regular Core-Lokts, as they seem to group the best from this rifle. I'm making sure the barrel is completely cool between shots, and I have cleaned the barrel after each session. Handloading is not really an option right now, as I just finished graduate school and am in a 1-bedroom apt...not a lot of work space.

Thanks, in advance, for any replies.

james · « **Reply #1 on:** March 06, 2006, 04:11:09 AM »

Greetings VolFan,
I have Encore barrels in 7mm-08, 6.5 x 55 and 209 x 50 and Rem 788s in .308 and .223. The 788s always hold their zero better and shoot smaller groups than the Encores. I reload and have tried numerous loads in the Encore. The best groups are 1 to 1.5 inches while the 788s are sub MOA. I have an old TC Hawken that will out shoot the Encore up to 50 yards but with a scope the Encore has an edge at 100 yds and over. I have done the washer thing too but can't tell that it helped much. Some people have tried larger hinge pins but I haven't heard enough positive feedback to try it. You might see if the stock bolt is tight. I don't have a cure all solution either.... yet, but I'm still playing with them. Good luck
james

VolFan9183 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 06, 2006, 07:36:12 AM »

Thanks James. I meant to mention that I also installed a 1x hinge pin from Mike. The groups are decent enough for me, as this is not a benchrest rifle. I do have a major problem with the groups rising and falling. Although 4" high at 100 would probably still kill a whitetail, my confidence level in the rifle is not very high, and this is not the performance I would expect for the money. I have a Nikon scope with Leupold base and rings which seems to be rigid.

The reason for the title is that I'm wondering if the problem could be in the barrel (bore), or in the frame. Would I likely see the same problem with another barrel? I don't really want to throw more cash in a new barrel if the same problem is likely to exist.

coopershooter · « **Reply #3 on:** March 06, 2006, 01:58:29 PM »

HI GUY'S!
THIS IS A COMON PROBLEM WITH THIS TYPE OF FRAME( CONTENDER, ENCORE) WHEN YOU SHOOT OFF SAND BAGS OR A RIFLE REST, THE AMOUNT OF PRESSURE YOU APPLY TO THE WRIST OF THE STOCK, MAY!! CAUSE A BIG DIFFRENCE IN POINT OF IMPACT. TRY THIS, SHOOT A FEW GROUPS AS YOU DO NOW, THEN SHOOT THE GUN FREE RECOIL, MEANING NO CHEEK, NO SHOLDER, AND NO!!! DOWNWARD PRESSURE WITH YOUR TRIGGER HAND THUMB. (ON THE WRIST OF THE STOCK) GIVE THIS AN HONEST TRY! IT'S VERY AWKWARD TO GET USED TO, BUT MY CONTENDER SHOOT,S BEST THIS WAY, WITH EVERY BARREL I TRY IT WITH!
THINK ABOUT IT, A BOLT ACTION WITH A ONE PIECE STOCK IS MUCH MORE RIGID THAN A BREAK OPEN ACTION. THINK ABOUT THE WHOLE HARMONICS THING. THE FIRST THING THEY TEACH YOU IN BENCH REST IS REPEATABILITY.
THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM WHEN SHOOTING OFFHAND, AS THE GUN IS HELD THE SAME FOR MOST EVERY SHOT.
GOOD LUCK!

Keith L · « **Reply #4 on:** March 06, 2006, 02:09:50 PM »

I have a bipod mounted on a stud in the front forend mount and don't get the stringing on any of my Contender barrels, but two are rimfire (17HMR, 17M2) and the other is a .204 Ruger, so none are recoilers like the one in question. In fact all three are easy to shoot good groups with. I use rubber washers between the forend and barrel, and the pin shipped with the frame. Dime sized groups at 100 yards if I do my part and the wind is calm.

JEFF WARD2 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 06, 2006, 07:22:59 PM »

I AGREE WITH JAMES CHECK YOUR STOCK BOLT !! THAT JUST MIGHT BE YOUR PROBLEM..
I HAD IT HAPPEN TO ME ONCE AND HAD THE SAME PROBLEM YOU ARE..
...JEFF

Rico · « **Reply #6 on:** March 10, 2006, 09:28:01 AM »

My 30-06 Fox Ridge barrel does this. The only cure for mine was waiting a minimum of +5 minutes between shots.
When done with a cool barrel it groups .75"-.5"
Once it starts to heat up they would walk up & R.

Grumulkin · « **Reply #7 on:** March 10, 2006, 12:18:49 PM »

I have an Encore 30/06 barrel I'm still diagnosing. The first shots out of a cold clean barrel are quite high (6 to 8 inches) and on 3 to 5 shots they vertically string down. Once it has had several shots through it, the groups come down to about 1 inch high and less than 1 MOA; right where I want them. I know it has nothing to do with shooting off the bench. I'm thinking it has either to do with a change in impact with heating from multiple shots or with barrel fouling. I've also been working with Barnes bullets which may have something to do with it. In any case, it's irritating and I'm hoping some more shooting/testing will find the cure.

Bullseye · « **Reply #8 on:** March 10, 2006, 05:24:46 PM »

The two times I had that problem with an Encore it was because the bolt in the stock had come loose.