Author Topic: Traditions Deerhunter.... (Read 2184 times)

CRIMSON63 · « **on:** December 07, 2005, 02:47:58 AM »

Would this rifle, in a percussion, be considered a traditional ML? I bought my first last summer, Pursuit LT, But would like to have a rifle to shoot round balls with. I like hunting with my modern ML, but hate the money trap that goes with buying ammo. (a buck apiece for powerbelts? come on!). If I could hit consistantly at 50-100yds with roundballs, I'de sell my modern ML.

savageT · « **Reply #1 on:** December 07, 2005, 04:20:42 AM »

Crimson6.3,
Why haven't you contacted Traditions Firearms to ask them what their thoughts are on a round ball shooting firearm. I don't believe anything in 1:48 twist barrel will give you the sort of hunting accuracy w/ round ball and patch that bullets w/sabots will give you.
Is there some reason for getting locked into a Traditions firearm? Can you not find something around 1:60 twist that is designed for patch and ball as in a Lyman?
Jim

CRIMSON63 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 07, 2005, 04:38:15 AM »

The reason I was looking at another Traditions was the money involved. The model I was looking at was not a bad looking rifle for $160. (black syn-nickle). The other sidelocks I saw that I really liked were flint. Too traditional for me. I haven't look into a Lyman. As far as the twist, I figured the 1-48" would be much better than the 1-28" that I shoot now for roundballs. I'm new to this ML thing, so any advice would be appreciated.

spitpatch · « **Reply #3 on:** December 07, 2005, 06:28:32 AM »

Quote from: CRIMSON63

I like hunting with my modern ML, but hate the money trap that goes with buying ammo. (a buck apiece for powerbelts? come on!). quote]
Crimson63, you got that right! your definatly trapped with a modern loader. I have a CVA St. Louis hawken .54 That has a 1:48 I think. ( if I'm wrong someone please correct me) It shoots RB's pretty well. consistant 3" at 100 yds. You can shoot 100 balls for the price of 15 power belts I think (somewhere around there) Pay the price for a good traditional, you won't be sorry. Don't know much about Traditions. I'm a Thompson and CVA fan but I'm sure there's alot of quality guns out there. I'm also not a fan of synthetic stocks.

savageT · « **Reply #4 on:** December 07, 2005, 11:35:59 AM »

Crimson63,
If you intend on doing allot of patch and ball shooting, I would stick with a true traditional model. Half the fun is getting into the sport and joining a buckskin group at your local club. I'm sure they will tell you to keep the twist rate on the s-l-o-w end and who knows, maybe you'll find someone who will take you under his wing and show you the ropes! If you ever get invited to a blackpowder meet and watch those guys snuffing out candle flames and punching holes in playing cards (the hard way- on their edge!) then you'll know soon enough what you want for a traditional firearm. By the way......yes, they do use 1:48 twist for Hawkins carbines and they do a pretty good job, but get to know what everyone likes first, then decide how much you want to spend. Oh, last word and I promise to let you go........have you heard about "Underhammers"

??
Jim

slayer · « **Reply #5 on:** December 07, 2005, 12:36:55 PM »

I have a T/C Hawken .50 Flinter with an optional 31 inch 1:66 twist barrel form T/C Custom Shop, perfect for round balls, but the barrel that I sold, the original 28 inch barrel with the 1:48 twist did very well also, I just wanted a litle longer and slower, you bump up the charge a little and a little more range. I don`t like the newer T/C barrels with the QLA for round balls, but they are great for conicals and sabots. For the money, you can`t go wrong with a Cabela`s Traditional Hawken .50 Caplock. 1:48 twist and a hefty 29 inch barrel, under $300. I am just kinda a T/C guy, have been for years. I have an older T/C Renegade .50 Caplock with the 26 inch barrel without QLA and it shoots roundballs very nice with 70-80 grains of Goex FFG. T/C use to be pretty cheap, until the big fire in the 90`s, and then their prices went way/way up, it`s a shame really. Good luck-Jack.

captchee · « **Reply #6 on:** December 07, 2005, 01:20:57 PM »

the deer hunter used to come in a 1:66 as well. here is a photo of my wifes deer hunter thats been re stocked . the barrel say traditions deerhunter 50 cal 1:66
she is very very hard to beat with this little gun loaded with 35 grains of 3 F

i would call it traditional even little CVA bobcats are traditional . how traditional with the plastic stock is the question . both CVA and traditions used to make wood stocks for these rifles the were pretty much interchangeable between companies

slayer · « **Reply #7 on:** December 07, 2005, 02:05:17 PM »

Very nice stock!! 35 gr FFFG eh, that sounds right. My Hawken is a serious tack driver with 50 gr FFG. could probably kill a deer with it, but like more energy from the 80-90 gr charges, but sooooooooooo much fun to shoot the 50 FFG load. Jack.

spitpatch · « **Reply #8 on:** December 07, 2005, 04:11:55 PM »

Hey captchee........I second the slayer.....nice gun!

jgalar · « **Reply #9 on:** December 07, 2005, 04:16:55 PM »

I cast and shoot conicals in my Remington muzzleloader. Its much cheaper than sabots. You can try conicals in your rifle they should be cheaper than sabots even when you have to buy them. You should also try shooting patched round balls in your gun - they may shoot just fine. Patched balls shoot well in my Remington as long as I don't try to push them too fast.

Generally the fast twists are for conicals/sabots, the 1 in 48 usually do pretty good with conicals and round ball, and the slow twist are for full power round ball. However some fast twist guns will shoot patched ball very well and the slow twist guns can shoot short conicals/ballets very well.

You won't know for sure until you try and its cheaper to try different powder and projectiles than it is to try different guns.

dodd3 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 09, 2005, 02:59:34 AM »

cva and traditions traditional guns are made in spain by a company by the name of dikar .
bernie

NautiBuoys · « **Reply #11 on:** December 09, 2005, 10:15:40 AM »

I have one and its a great still-hunting rifle, nice and light compared to my Knight and TCs. The again, one can never have enough...BTW, it is extremely accurate with conicals, which I prefer over r/b's for hunting. RBs are pretty accurate but for some reason it like the conicals.

chickenlittle · « **Reply #12 on:** December 10, 2005, 05:17:08 PM »

I would say that a percussion Traditions Deerhunter is not traditional except for the fact that it has a percussion sidelock and loads from the muzzle. Unless you restock it like Captchee did ... and it looks like that stock costs more than the original gun. I have a .50 flintlock Deerhunter and have found it to be a nice little gun. Short and handy and ok quality.

If you want something that looks somewhat traditional, I'd say a Lyman Great Plains in .54 cal is your best bet or a Cabeala's Kentucky rifle. Tradiations makes full-stocked percussion rifles but I think for that amount of money I'd conisder Austin & Halleck's Mountain Rifle, something from Dixie Gun, or shop around for a Pedersoli Frontier which is available in .54 caliber.

Snowshoe · « **Reply #13 on:** December 11, 2005, 09:55:51 AM »

My wife has a Tradiditions Deerhunter with the 1 in 48" twist, and it will shoot 3 balls inside of 1 1/2" at 80 yards. With 70g of Goex FFG, she has taken at least 10 whitetails, from 20 to 100 yards. The original sights suck so we put a set of fiber optics on it. This rifle will also shoot conicals very well, but the recoil from such a light rifle is tough to take.

chickenlittle · « **Reply #14 on:** December 11, 2005, 01:37:08 PM »

Snowshoe makes a good point. The plastic sights are pretty bad and you'll likely want to replace them. If you can get it sighted in and don't have to change them again, they might be ok. If you want to change, I'd suggest the V-Peep from www.RMCsports.com.

I also replaced the ramrod. I initially used an aluminum ramrod off one of my in-lines but later got a brass rod for it. I liked the weight the solid brass rod adds to the gun

If I had considered the cost of the upgrades, I would have been better off spending a bit more for a Lyman. I did buy a Lyman Great Plains the next year and now I have a Deerhunter that I'm not really sure what to do with. Maybe I'll pass it down to my nephews at CHRISTmas.

BTW Snowshoe, has your wife tried Bufallo Ballets? They shoot pretty good out of mine. Not that heavy at 245gr but heavier than a .50 cal roundball.

slayer · « **Reply #15 on:** December 11, 2005, 02:05:14 PM »

I love the Buffalo Ball-Ets .Mid weight, nice price and shoot great from most rifling twists!! I highly reccomend them. Jack.

dispatch 510 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 13, 2005, 01:49:16 AM »

Check out your local pawnshops,You can find some really good deals on percussion guns.Most people have gone with the inline guns and alot of the pawnshops will make you a good deal on them. Just make sure it has a good bore. No rust. :-D

Snowshoe · « **Reply #17 on:** December 14, 2005, 04:10:39 PM »

Yes Chickenlittle, my wife has tried the ball-ets, and they shoot good. We prefer using the round ball for our deer hunting though. For the ranges we hunt at, the round ball seems to work just fine.

Slamfire · « **Reply #18 on:** December 15, 2005, 06:12:41 PM »

My CVA Bobcat has the 48" twist and shoots roundballs great with 50 grains of FFg. With 75 grains of the same powder it puts Buffalo's Ballets in the same group at 50 yards as the lighter round ball load. It bothers me a bit that it isn't very traditional, but come spring I'll pull the barrel and adapt it to my H&A underhammer. Bein' a southpaw I'll settle for period correct back to 1835. :wink: That leaves me with a .36 barrel for varmits and a .50 for deer bear and hogs. Then I'll start shoppin' for a .62 smoothy, to complete the set.

slayer · « **Reply #19 on:** December 16, 2005, 08:37:04 AM »

Slamfire, do you think 50-55 gr of FFG has enough energy to kill Deer and Hogs? I ask this, because I think the most accurate load in a 1:48 twist barrel is a patched ball and 50 gr FFG, actually 50-70 gr is super accurate. Jack.

Slamfire · « **Reply #20 on:** December 16, 2005, 03:32:41 PM »

Actually the 50 grain round ball load is my target shootin' load. I use 75 grains to push the 245 grain Ballet, when I'm shootin' fer meat. But round balls do kill deer with some mighty small charges of powder. :wink:

JimG · « **Reply #21 on:** January 01, 2006, 08:15:18 AM »

Crimson63-

I recently bought a lightly used Traditions .50 cal caplock against the advice of many. They said the 1-48 twist was poor for round balls and not optimum for conicals/sabots. They said Traditions is not a quality gun. Well after shooting more than 250 RB's through the gun with charges running 50 grains to 80 grains of Pyrodex Select I have NEVER had a missfire, and the accuracy with my homemade patches, homemade patch lube, home-cast .490 balls from roof flashing and wheel weights has consistently netted me 4" or smaller groups at a measured 50 yards OFFHAND. Off of a bench the groups shrink greatly. However I'm not going to shoot a deer from a bench so I don't concern myself with that. I say go for it. Sometimes the advice given on forums ain't what it should be.

AndyHass · « **Reply #22 on:** January 02, 2006, 04:48:10 PM »

Individual guns, even of the same model, vary in their taste for loads, so take this for what it is worth.
I have a Deerhunter that I bought about 1994-1995, my first ML. I tried RBs, with a few different patches and loads. Nothing was remotely accurate. It shot ball-ets ok, but I eventually went with sabots in it as they grouped better. I think 1-48" is a bit fast for RBs in most guns.
As for quality, mine was old enough the sights were metal, though adjustable only for windage (with a hammer). I could hang the gun by my finger, cocked, and it would not fire. A 'smith friend filed the sear for me, and I went on to kill more deer with that gun than any other. I bought another Traditions after that, with another quality issue. I agree with the others; save a few months longer, get a better quality brand.