Author Topic: First Rifle  (Read 1749 times)

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Offline mjbgalt

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« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2005, 08:07:28 AM »
i was just looking at that buds site. i notice the gun you want is available in .25-06 and 6.5x55.

one of those would be my choice. they will kill any deer around and i have heard several guys say they wouldn't feel undergunned on elk with either of them.

they dont kick much, dont cost a ton to shoot, and can be loaded with heavier or lighter bullets, even down to below 100 grains, for varmints and such.

that is where i would start. i would feel remiss if i told you to get .30-06 or something and you come back with a black and blue shoulder and a headache and say youve decided to trade it.

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Offline Kotupod

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« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2005, 08:13:51 AM »
I have shot the 30-06 many times, and the kick isn't that bad, to me at least. I dont think that kick will be much of a factor for me, im 6' tall and 240 lbs. The main question I have is PRICE, range, speed, ect...

Thanks anyways.
-Jonathan C.

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Offline mjbgalt

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« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2005, 08:25:10 AM »
i am the same size. so i guess recoil isnt a factor here then either.

i still would rather shoot something like a 6.5x55 or .260 or .25-06 so i dont have to grit my teeth when i pull the trigger lol.

but its pretty much up to you. sounds like you're almost there on your decision.

i think i like the hunter version in walnut better than the synthetic stock but thats personal preference.

-Matt
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Offline 7x57mm

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« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2005, 08:41:32 AM »
Kuiopod: All of the calibers you mentioned would be excellent whitetail calibers. You might look at variables, though. The .270 WSM is no doubt a fine cartridge, but from your posts is sounds as if you are on the young side and money is an issue. The short mag cartridge is going to be a lot more expensive than your regular cartridge, such as the .270 Winchester. You also have the recoil issue. I see more and more people buying magnum calibers these days and then coming back on the forums asking about compensators because their rifle hurts them when they shoot it. Of the three remaining calibers the .30/06 is the most versatile, probably followed by the .308 Winchester and then the .270. This is not to say the .270 is not a fine cartridge. It is a real beauty and one which has been taking game the world over for years and years. If it were me and it was my first high powered rifle and I only had the four choices you gave, I'd go with the .308 Winchester. It has the guts to take any game in the lower 48 states and most of the game in Alaska, with the exception of the large  bears, but, in a pinch, could take one of them if it had to. It won't have the recoil of the .30/06, but there is a wide selection of factory loaded cartridges to chose from, say from match shooting all the way up to hunting elk. You haven't mentioned much about a scope, and if you did, I missed it. Get as good of a scope as you think you can afford, and then go $50 more. I have a lot of respect for the Leupold VariX-1 scopes. I have a CZ 550 American in 7x57mm Mauser and it wears a 4x12 Leupold VariX-1 scope. The quality is good and the price is fantastic. As far as Bud's Guns, the company is a good one and very reputable. You will have to find someone with a Federal Firearms License to do the actual transaction because the law will not allow you to buy a rifle online without an FFL. That will add about $25 to the price and then Bud's adds another $25 for shipping and handling charges. His prices are very, very good, but you have to add $50 to the price to get it out of the front door. Good luck with it all and have fun. Tom Purdom

Offline 7x57mm

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« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2005, 08:43:13 AM »
Kutupod: All of the calibers you mentioned would be excellent whitetail calibers. You might look at variables, though. The .270 WSM is no doubt a fine cartridge, but from your posts is sounds as if you are on the young side and money is an issue. The short mag cartridge is going to be a lot more expensive than your regular cartridge, such as the .270 Winchester. You also have the recoil issue. I see more and more people buying magnum calibers these days and then coming back on the forums asking about compensators because their rifle hurts them when they shoot it. Of the three remaining calibers the .30/06 is the most versatile, probably followed by the .308 Winchester and then the .270. This is not to say the .270 is not a fine cartridge. It is a real beauty and one which has been taking game the world over for years and years. If it were me and it was my first high powered rifle and I only had the four choices you gave, I'd go with the .308 Winchester. It has the guts to take any game in the lower 48 states and most of the game in Alaska, with the exception of the large  bears, but, in a pinch, could take one of them if it had to. It won't have the recoil of the .30/06, but there is a wide selection of factory loaded cartridges to chose from, say from match shooting all the way up to hunting elk. You haven't mentioned much about a scope, and if you did, I missed it. Get as good of a scope as you think you can afford, and then go $50 more. I have a lot of respect for the Leupold VariX-1 scopes. I have a CZ 550 American in 7x57mm Mauser and it wears a 4x12 Leupold VariX-1 scope. The quality is good and the price is fantastic. As far as Bud's Guns, the company is a good one and very reputable. You will have to find someone with a Federal Firearms License to do the actual transaction because the law will not allow you to buy a rifle online without an FFL. That will add about $25 to the price and then Bud's adds another $25 for shipping and handling charges. His prices are very, very good, but you have to add $50 to the price to get it out of the front door. Good luck with it all and have fun. Tom Purdom

Offline Swamp Yankee

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« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2005, 11:31:49 AM »
45 North is right. "Get out and try as many rifles as you can," if it dosen't fit right even the best rifle in the world is no bargin.  
Personally I would buy a used rifle and use the money you save to up grade the optics. A cheap scope can ruin a hunt real quick. As far as caliber, where you live and what you hunt should determin what you select.    Just my thoughts,   Jim

Offline QuailKiller

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« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2005, 02:04:49 PM »
I can't believe nobody has mentioned the Ruger M77!  If you want a rifle that will last you a lifetime, look no further!  Ruger rifles are extremely rugged and reliable, and Ruger has some of the best customer service ever!  The M77 is also quite a bit cheaper than a Browning, too.  All American made, too!

I would seriously check out the Rugers ( http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/P-CategoryRiflesCBA.html ), and see if you like them.  That said, if they don't fit you good, don't buy one because you will not be happy with it.  Just make sure you take you time shopping and handle lots of guns before you make your decision.

Good luck!

Offline Coyote Hunter

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« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2005, 07:51:47 PM »
Kotupod –

I’ll second the recommendation for a Ruger M77 or M77 MKII, but only because I’m an unabashed Ruger fan – every one I have is a good shooter.

However, I’ll also second the idea of purchasing a used rifle. Three of the centerfire rifles in my safe were purchased new but six were previously owned.  No one could tell the difference either in the way they look or the way they shoot, but I saved a bundle on the used ones.  In the case of the Ruger .257 Roberts it was an older (1989) M77 with the tang safety and a Leupold M8 4x scope mounted.  It had been shot so little there were no marks in the bluing under the tang safety, something I “corrected” the first week I had it.  The rifle and scope cost me an even $400.  A few days ago I picked up a 1975 Remington BDL in excellent condition for $330, caliber .308 Win.  The money I saved on the rifle will go toward good glass.  Not every used rifle is a bargain but there are still a lot of excellent deals out there if you’re patient and willing to look around a little.

As to caliber for whitetail, anything from a .243 Win and up will work.  (A lot of people like centerfire .22’s for deer but they are not legal where I live and I wouldn’t use them if they were.)  If it were me I’d be looking at .25-06, .260 Remington, .270 Win, 7mm-08, .280 Remington, .308 Winchester, or .30-06.  I’d avoid bullets lighter than 100 grains in the smaller calibers and when muzzle velocities exceeded 2900fps I’d want premium bullets that would hold together – a Nosler Partition would be fine.  I’d avoid the magnums - whether short regular or extra long – and I’d avoid odd-ball or hard-to-find cartridges, cartridges that have a poor selection available, and cartridges that cost a premium.  If I was on a budget I would strongly consider the .308 and .30-06 because of all the inexpensive ammo available for them – my goal is to shoot, not to empty the pocketbook.

If varminting was a potential use for the rifle I would lean toward the .25-06.  If not I would lean toward the .308 Win.

For a scope I would also consider used.  Four of my five Leupolds were picked up used at gun shows, three for only $100 each.  The Leupold VX-III 4.5-14 that now rides atop my .257 Roberts was picked up used for $350 and is easily the best glass I own.  In new glass I would consider the Simmons Aetec for about $110-150 depending on the configuration (my hunting buddy and I both have one on our 7mm Mags and are very happy with them), or a Burris Fullfield II Ballistic Plex for about $180.  I have one of those on my .300 Win Mag and will probably pick up one for my “new” .308 Win – the graduated range reticle is perfect for my particular needs.  When I got my first centerfire rifle back in ’81 I put a new $40 Bushnell Sportview scope on it.  The scope was never very good in low light situations and I was never very happy with it, but it helped me take a lot of game and it survived a lot of abuse, including an accident that cost me two broken ribs when I landed on top of it.  I was on a very limited budget at the time and that little incident made me very happy I didn’t have an expensive scope.  Nowadays I prefer better quality glass but with two kids in college I’m still on a budget.  Buying used scopes allows me to get better quality glass than I could if I were to buy new.
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Offline Broken-arrow

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« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2005, 09:06:07 AM »
I also agree that your best bet is to take your time and look for a good used rifle. The brand is not that important, there are good ones and bad ones in every make and model. Just have someone who is "knowed up" check it out for you before you buy.  You can buy a used rifle for probably 20 - 30% less than a new one, have a better made and maybe even a classic firearm, and spend the money you saved on good optics.
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Offline JJ79

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« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2005, 12:25:30 PM »
let us know how you like that Tikka!!  :-)

as far as caliber...if it were me, I'd go .270 win; that's assuming you're gonna turn into a rifle junkie like me and buy many more (this is your first rifle, after all).  if you're buying this gun to last a lifetime because you're not planning on buying any more, then you might want a more versatile cartridge like the 30-06 or .308.

but if it's just a deer gun, and you're gonna buy other rifles to hunt other stuff...then definitely get the .270 win...it'll kill any deer that walks, and it will do it out to 500 yds (farther than you should be shooting at one anyway!!!  :shock: ) and it will do it with less recoil than the '06....

also, maybe look at a Nikon as far as scopes go; you can get into a really nice one for around $100-150

Offline Kotupod

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« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2005, 02:30:15 PM »
I found a used gun i think i'd like. But I think the price is a little much. Well not really but its a little more than I need. Browning A-Bolt Stainless, new in box, w/ leupold mounts, leupold scope, Vari X III 6.5x20x50mm, and he is asking $850. Isn't the scope itself worth over 500 bucks? OH and its in 300 mag
-Jonathan C.

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Offline Redhawk1

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« Reply #41 on: December 04, 2005, 02:41:30 PM »
Quote from: Kotupod
I found a used gun i think i'd like. But I think the price is a little much. Well not really but its a little more than I need. Browning A-Bolt Stainless, new in box, w/ leupold mounts, leupold scope, Vari X III 6.5x20x50mm, and he is asking $850. Isn't the scope itself worth over 500 bucks? Oh and its in 300 mag.


Sounds like a great price. Yes the scope new is over $500.
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Offline Kotupod

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« Reply #42 on: December 04, 2005, 02:59:49 PM »
is 300 mag too much for me for deer hunting? Which caliber would you compare it too? I really like that deal. The only question is caliber.
-Jonathan C.

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Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense

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Offline 1911crazy

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« Reply #43 on: December 04, 2005, 03:18:17 PM »
My advise is enjoy the bigger bores while your young I did the 338win.mag and 30-06's then as you get older like me the smaller bores with less recoil are much better.  I still hunt with the '06 and 338 but i don't shoot them too much anymore.  Which brings a good point to talk about maybe a semi-auto would be a great pic then you can shoot it into your later years too it would last you a lifetime.  I'm starting to like the semi-auto's more because of the less punishment on the body.  And yes the 7x57 mauser and 6,5x55 swede are great calibers to consider too for a bolt action you can shoot them all day because of the mild recoil and the 7x57 has dropped elephants in their tracks.  :eek:

Offline Kotupod

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« Reply #44 on: December 04, 2005, 03:28:15 PM »
Is the kick equal, greater, or less than the 30-06?
-Jonathan C.

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Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense

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Offline Kotupod

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« Reply #45 on: December 04, 2005, 03:48:28 PM »
ah I need help lol..
-Jonathan C.

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Offline one eye joe

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« Reply #46 on: December 04, 2005, 04:35:19 PM »
The 300 will kick considerably more than the 30/06. The general feeling is that the '06 is about the maximum recoil the "average" shooter can handle. I am considerably smaller than you (6'3" and 175), I have both but they are in heavy guns - 1917 Enfields sporterized. I can shoot either without problems, but can truly tell the difference in recoil. Actually, most all my hunting is done with my 25/06. Fast, flat, and not much recoil. If you will be reloading, consider something in the .25-.284 range. If you don't, than I would take any of the 308, 30/06, 270 trio. Ammo is readily available, and reasonable. The 300 ammo will set you back probably 1/2 again more. As far as makes, I have owned Remington, Ruger, Browning, and shot several other makes. Be sure it comes up well and fits your shooting style. Make is secondary. Don't get pulled into something because it is a "good deal". If it doesn't fit, or isn't a caliber you want, keep looking. Just my opinion.

Offline Kotupod

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« Reply #47 on: December 04, 2005, 04:42:35 PM »
With the same loads the 300 mag kicks much more than the 30-06? :shock: why would that be?
-Jonathan C.

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Offline kenscot

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« Reply #48 on: December 04, 2005, 05:00:28 PM »
Heavier powder charge

Offline Kotupod

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« Reply #49 on: December 04, 2005, 05:09:21 PM »
Oh, I see. Then why have some people said that the recoil is equal or less to the 30-06?
-Jonathan C.

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Offline kenscot

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« Reply #50 on: December 04, 2005, 05:24:35 PM »
rifle weight also plays into felt recoil but generally if all things are equal are equal rifle weight, stock fit, full charge loads the 300 will definately kick more

Offline Kotupod

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« Reply #51 on: December 04, 2005, 05:34:26 PM »
Yes, thank you, I believe I understand. Someone also showed me this chart: http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm, according to this, the recoil for the 300 mag is greater, but not that much different. I dunno; :?.

But isn't this a beautiful gun?
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?value=001B&cat_id=035&type_id=008
-Jonathan C.

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Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense

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Offline Kotupod

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« Reply #52 on: December 04, 2005, 05:41:56 PM »
Unless of corse its the white gold medallian, which It probably isn't, which is even more beautiful.
-Jonathan C.

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Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense

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Offline JJ79

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« Reply #53 on: December 05, 2005, 07:18:47 PM »
Quote from: Kotupod
is 300 mag too much for me for deer hunting? Which caliber would you compare it too? I really like that deal. The only question is caliber.


yes it is a bit too much, in my opinion, for hunting average sized whitetails...it'd make a great elk rifle though  8)

Offline Kotupod

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« Reply #54 on: December 05, 2005, 07:22:26 PM »
:? My mother doesn't want to drive that far for the gun, so now she is buying me any gun under 600 bucks, I have to buy the optics. I was thinking Tikka
T3 Lite stainless, or the Hunter. If anyone has a better idea, feel free to tell me. Oh, and would yall recommend a 3-9x50 or 40, or any other suggestions?
Thanks,
 :D
-Jonathan C.

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Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense

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Offline JJ79

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« Reply #55 on: December 05, 2005, 07:28:15 PM »
Quote from: Kotupod
:? My mother doesn't want to drive that far for the gun, so now she is buying me any gun under 600 bucks, I have to buy the optics. I was thinking Tikka
T3 Lite stainless, or the Hunter. If anyone has a better idea, feel free to tell me. Oh, and would yall recommend a 3-9x50 or 40, or any other suggestions?
Thanks,
 :D


3-9x40....see my earlier post for scope ideas....

Offline Kotupod

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« Reply #56 on: December 05, 2005, 07:34:02 PM »
k, anyone else heard bad about beretta's customer service?
-Jonathan C.

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Offline QuailKiller

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« Reply #57 on: December 06, 2005, 11:47:39 AM »
I have heard nothing but bad about Beretta's customer service, but I have not dealt with them personally because I don't have any of their guns.  

I think the 300 win. mag is way more than you need.  Not that it would be overkill or anything, but just a waste of unnecessary firepower.   The 300 will kick harder than a 30-06, cost more money to shoot, and be a heavier gun to carry around.  For just hunting whitetails I wouldn't go any higher than a 30-06.  I use a 30-06 on elk.

I do recomend you to take a look at Ruger.  You may be surprised.

Offline Kotupod

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« Reply #58 on: December 06, 2005, 11:50:52 AM »
Im no longer buying a 300 mag.. Im either buying a tikka t3 lite stainless or a tikka t3 hunter for 520 each. Even though the tikka t3 hunter retails for quite a bit more
-Jonathan C.

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Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense

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