Sabots and smoothbores

[Evil Dog]

I've heard from a couple other cannon shooters that accuracy with a smoothbore can be significantly improved by adding a sabot to the ball.... not that they have actually done this themselves.  Have any of you sucessfully used sabots in your smoothbore?  If so, I would sure like to hear how you went about it.

[Double D]

Ed,

One thing I noted during my visit to Ft. McHenry was sabot mounted balls in the magazine.




I keep seeing reference to sabot mounted balls as standard original ordnance.  There must be a reason.

I had plans to try them with my 1 inch balls, but that has been postponed for two years.

[GGaskill]

At least one reason for sabots on original shot is the powder bag was attached to the sabot so powder and shot could be loaded with a single ramming.  Obviously the sabot would prevent or at least lessen rotation of the shot in the bore.  Whether that would be a good or bad thing, I don't know.

[Will Bison]

As George pointed out the sabot offers a quick way to affix the powder charge to a round shot thus speeding the loading process.

I use a sabot with cannister/grape loads to buffer the muzzle blast and seal the gas behind the shot. With spherical shell/Shrapnel the sabot keeps the fuze pointed in the right direction.

In Sea Service guns the sabot prevents the ball from moving in the bore from the pitch and roll of the ship. Land battery guns are often employed from higher ground and must be depressed to strike the target. Again the sabot prevents forward movement.

[Cat Whisperer]

I've heard from a couple other cannon shooters that accuracy with a smoothbore can be significantly improved by adding a sabot to the ball.... not that they have actually done this themselves.  Have any of you sucessfully used sabots in your smoothbore?  If so, I would sure like to hear how you went about it.

Sounds like if I'm going to give an answer from EXPERIENCE I'll have to put some sabots on golf balls or cast some beer can (or 4.5") diameter spheres.

[kappullen]

I went to the American Artillery Association Nationals over the past weekend (10/11).

Those guys do not shoot balls.

They say balls bounce down the barrel and go the direction of the last bounce.

Each one has a projectile of one kind or other made from various sized cans, or machined complete.

The cans are usually 3/4 filled with cement and tipped with a lead nose.

The machined ones and mostly aluminum but with a lead tip as well.

The accuracy was very good even with the smooth bored guns.



This is a Krupp Breach loader shooting machined complete from aluminum projectiles with a lead nose.

I was thinking of making aluminum projectiles with a spherical nose filled with lead and a tail sort of hollowed out like a mini ball with fins machined into the center body.

What are you guys shooting?

Some of the new shotgun slugs may be a possibility.

Kap

[uz2busmc]

Ever considered making a projectile shaped just like a your common pellet rifle pellet? The skirt makes for simple stability, and you can make the front domed.

[Cat Whisperer]

DD & I saw a mold for one about a year ago from one of the vendors at Ft Shenendoa.

[GGaskill]

The traditional shotgun slug is a cylinder with a hemispherical nose and a hemispherical cavity in the base.  It should make a good cannon shot except for the issue of a void ahead of the powder charge (a waisted pellet design would have the same problem.)  If the cavity could be filled with a low density material (epoxy/micro-balloons comes to mind), that would take care of that issue.

[guardsgunner]

I use a deep base like that and fill with wax.

[uz2busmc]

If you made the skirt end of a pellet style round solid and made sure that it was weight biased towards the front with a fairly large dome, I would imagine that would work fine.

[GGaskill]

Wax sounds like a good idea as long as it doesn't melt at an inopportune time.

[guardsgunner]

The wax is usually found intact when we can find a round. not melt or burnt.

[JMinNM]

I use a cast lead dome shaped nose lag bolted to a turned oak sabot a little under bore size. They hit nose on and  can be dug out of the dirt bank easily for remelting and casting. Same deal for solid shot except I turn a recess for the undersized shot. The shot are ball mill balls used for crushing ore. they go deeper into the bank but can be found, generally. Cannon is a 3.5 inch Mdl 1841 mountain howitzer.           JMinNM

[Blaster]

Hey JMinNM..Apparently you got a replacement CPR.  Now, hows about posting a picture of one of the sabots that you have made up.  And, don't forget to place a powder can next to it for scale.  Sorry you can't make the AQ show.  Perhaps I'll find myself a nice big mortar that someone wants to get rid of at that show.
Hey, I can at least dream. :wink:
Blaster

[JMinNM]

blaster, yes we got a new computer, now if I can figure out how to post pics we will be in business.  Would like to have been at the show but couldn't make it. The cannon balls I sent you are 1.9 inch so the oak sabot will work well in your 2 incher. After finishing other projects I've decided to make a mortar out of the rear end of a 75mm AAgun barrel. It measures about 7.5 " od and 3.3" id and is much to long. I'm going to need a lot of help in laying out and fabricating the trunnion and breach sealing assembly.                  jm

[threepdr]

The wooden sabot served to take up some on the windage on the ball and improve accuracy and also allowed the cartridge to be fixed to the ball thus expediting loading.  Fixed ammo like this was norm for most armys all through the smoothbore era.

[Blaster]

blaster, yes we got a new computer, now if I can figure out how to post pics we will be in business.  Would like to have been at the show but couldn't make it. The cannon balls I sent you are 1.9 inch so the oak sabot will work well in your 2 incher. After finishing other projects I've decided to make a mortar out of the rear end of a 75mm AAgun barrel. It measures about 7.5 " od and 3.3" id and is much to long. I'm going to need a lot of help in laying out and fabricating the trunnion and breach sealing assembly.                  jm

Yeah JM, Lindsey and I endured the gunshow but wasn't much $$ changing hands at this one.  Lot of people looked at and asked questions about the mortar and cannon that I had on display and had some interesting conversations about the BP guns.  Many thanks for the cannon balls, the ones that you sent will just be perfect for the stack that I'm making.  You should get a lot of help on this forum in the laying out and fabricating procedure of your new mortar project.  Hope to see your pictures posted one of these days and MOST important, be sure to have a powder can in the pictures for scale.  I know DD would get on my case if I didn't recommend that.  Finally, if you have any EXTRA pieces of that 75mm AAgun, please keep me in mind.  Blaster (Bob in So. CO)

[Cat Whisperer]

Ever considered making a projectile shaped just like a your common pellet rifle pellet? The skirt makes for simple stability, and you can make the front domed.

Found the picture, loaded the software for the scanner and:

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I would think that it would take a torch to preheat it to make anything good.

This was taken a little over a year ago, hence, no powder can in the pix.

It was at one of the Sutler's at the N-SSA national matches at Ft Shenandoah, Winchester, VA last year.