Author Topic: DOM tubing, 4140?  (Read 2219 times)

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Offline Third_Rail

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DOM tubing, 4140?
« on: July 29, 2005, 04:30:48 PM »
Does anyone know where I can pick up some .125"+ DOM 4140 tubing? ID anywhere from 2.5"-4", I'm flexible.

Offline CAV Trooper

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DOM tubing, 4140?
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2005, 05:40:21 PM »
Third Rail,

I haven't been able to find any 4140 DOM but you can get either 4130 DOM or 4130 seamless tubing in various sizes from Aircraftspruce. They sell both by the foot.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/mepages/4130tubing_ov1.php

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/mepages/4130tubing_un1.php
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Offline Cat Whisperer

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DOM tubing, 4140?
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2005, 01:12:02 AM »
If they don't have it, or at the right price (shipping too), you might want to ask some of the local machine shops.  There are two that I deal with that let me have it for their cost!  Sometimes if you order special types you might have to get a full piece (from 11 to 20 some feet long), but if it's ordered with their order you don't incur any shipping costs.

As CavT. said, 4130 is what you'll typically find in DOM.



Whatchya building?
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline Third_Rail

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DOM tubing, 4140?
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2005, 04:17:57 AM »
I'll be building two things - a muzzleloading bazooka, and (eventually), a DD version. No explosive warheads, though.

Offline Double D

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DOM tubing, 4140?
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2005, 07:45:26 AM »
A muzzloading bazooka?   Bazooka's are rocket launchers..see if you can find one pre 1899.

.

Offline Third_Rail

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DOM tubing, 4140?
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2005, 07:54:50 AM »
Well, a muzzleloading tube that's plugged on one end that fires a light zinc projectile.


The real one will just be a DD rocket launcher.

Offline guardsgunner

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DOM tubing, 4140?
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2005, 08:08:45 AM »
DD,
   The Congrave(?) rocket of the civil war might meet that class. They were fired from tube's or trough's mounted on wire legs or carriages.  They were pretty muched scrapped for directional problems.

Offline Double D

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DOM tubing, 4140?
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2005, 09:21:35 AM »
Ah yes I see, a shoulder mounted swivel gun...definitel pre 1899.

Offline GGaskill

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DOM tubing, 4140?
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2005, 10:04:38 AM »
One of the serious shortcomings of the Congreve rockets was deterioration of the propellant during storage and transportation.  They were loaded upon manufacture so the powder had to endure all the slings and arrows of storage and deployment which fractured the charges and caused erratic results.
GG
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Offline Cat Whisperer

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DOM tubing, 4140?
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2005, 11:27:07 AM »
Quote from: GGaskill
One of the serious shortcomings of the Congreve rockets was deterioration of the propellant during storage and transportation.  They were loaded upon manufacture so the powder had to endure all the slings and arrows of storage and deployment which fractured the charges and caused erratic results.



Amazing to me how we try lots of different things to accomplish the mission.  War tends to bring out lots of 'practical applications' of known science.  

Any links to this interesting snippit of history?  Dates/people?
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Offline GGaskill

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DOM tubing, 4140?
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2005, 01:02:35 PM »
From History of Rocketry, Chapter 2, 18th and 19th Centuries, The U.S. Civil War Sees Limited Use Of Rockets (about 3/4 of the way down) at Spaceline.org:

"However, both sides in the Civil War remembered how well rockets served armed forces during the Mexican War two decades earlier. But, it was quickly discovered that Hale, and even Congreve, rockets that had been stored for long periods of time were rendered useless because their gunpowder charges failed to remain properly bonded to their casings."
GG
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Offline guardsgunner

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DOM tubing, 4140?
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2005, 01:32:56 PM »
My Great ,great something or another join Battery A 1st N.Y. rocket Batt. in  July of 1863. He had served his enlistment in the 28th NY Inf. and re-enlisted in the battery. The were coverted to field artillery(6 pdr's)and sent south.  (crossed from Canada to fight)
   There is lot's of info on use of rockets. Gibbons manual( in the links now I think) has some info on their use and construction. The Brit's used rockets a bit in the war of 1812. there were Hale's(New Orleans)
   GG is right as usual. The Congreve used the pressure from the burning composition to cause spin to stabilize as well as forward movement. If they didn't burn the same, they had a mind of their own and went everywhere. Some testing was done in D.C. launching them down the Potomac river. They had some new improved version in the early fall of 1863.

Offline Third_Rail

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DOM tubing, 4140?
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2005, 02:14:42 PM »
For a 2.5" bore out of 4130 DOM, do you think that .250 walls would be safe? Keep in mind I'd be firing hardly two ounces, as this will be either cast zinc or machined aluminum.


If I need to, I'll simply machine a sleeve out of some thicker tube to reinforce as well.

Offline Cat Whisperer

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DOM tubing, 4140?
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2005, 02:21:12 PM »
Quote from: Third_Rail
For a 2.5" bore out of 4130 DOM, do you think that .250 walls would be safe? Keep in mind I'd be firing hardly two ounces, as this will be either cast zinc or machined aluminum.


If I need to, I'll simply machine a sleeve out of some thicker tube to reinforce as well.


2 oz is a LOT of powder.  A friend has 4130 tube from which he fires full and half beer cans (filled with concrete) with 200 to 400 grains and they go some 400 meters.  About 1/4" wall thickness.

If you're going for the big bang do heavy-duty walls and a powder chamber.  The longer the tube the greater the powder burning efficiency (range and velocity) and the less the noise (and smoke) you'll produce.
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Offline Third_Rail

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DOM tubing, 4140?
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2005, 03:25:52 PM »
:lol:

You misunderstand, the projectile itself will be 2oz or thereabouts! mostly much reduced diameter with two driving bands, as it were. I'm thinking less than 100 grain charges.

Offline Cat Whisperer

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DOM tubing, 4140?
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2005, 03:36:36 PM »
Quote from: Third_Rail
:lol:

You misunderstand, the projectile itself will be 2oz or thereabouts! mostly much reduced diameter with two driving bands, as it were. I'm thinking less than 100 grain charges.


I must still have been thinking about depleted uranium!
You're well within the bounds of safe charges.
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Offline Third_Rail

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DOM tubing, 4140?
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2005, 03:55:28 PM »
I thought so. Thanks!

Looks like this is the 5th project to add to the list, along with mini-cannons, mini-mortars, and a wallgun.

Offline Charcoal

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DOM tubing, 4140?
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2005, 01:15:49 PM »
Here is a company I buy from.Bought this tubing from them,very reasonable compared to most places.

SPEEDY METALS 1-888-744-4140

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=92087&item=7519015120

Offline dominick

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DOM tubing, 4140?
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2005, 10:04:33 AM »
Third Rail,   If you are looking for 4130 I have a source for some specific sizes.  3" x .250 wall which is 2.5" ID. about $15 per ft (last time I checked.)   I used this particular tubing when fabricating rear housings for drag cars.   It some pretty nice stuff; very strong.  They also carry 2.25 X .250 - 1.75" ID Golf Ball Size.  From my understanding all 4130 chrome moly tubing is seamless.  The "DOM" simply means "Drawn Over Mandrel" where an internal die is also used along with an external die in the draw bench sizing process. This process gives the ID a smooth and precisely sized bore and eliminates the weld seam in a welded tube.
  DOM tubing can come in either a welded or a seamless tube. I'm not sure if ALL 4130 is DOM, but I do know that 4130 condition "N" (normalized heat treat) is seamless which is an important consideration. The bores on the above two sizes appear to be DOM because of die oil coloring on the ID wall.  For more information and to obtain this material call Dillsburg Aeroplane Works 717-432-4589 .

Offline Third_Rail

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DOM tubing, 4140?
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2005, 02:42:32 PM »
Before I call, where are they located? If they're in PA, I'm heading toward there before winter and could thus avoid shipping costs.

Offline Cat Whisperer

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DOM tubing, 4140?
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2005, 03:46:50 PM »
Quote from: Third_Rail
Before I call, where are they located? If they're in PA, I'm heading toward there before winter and could thus avoid shipping costs.


Google disgorged this:

Dillsburg Aeroplane Works, (717) 432-4589, 114 Saw Mill Rd, Dillsburg, PA 17019

and

Vogelsong Charles T, (717) 432-4589, 114 Saw Mill Rd, Dillsburg, PA 17019

And my 1997 Rand McNally gives Dillsburg as being slightly closer to Harrisburg (on Rt 15) than Gettysburg.

FWIW.

Generally you'll find that if it's listed as a material for building airplanes the quality is where it should be.
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Offline Double D

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DOM tubing, 4140?
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2005, 04:15:55 PM »
The barrel liners I use for relining Martini's is made from hammer forged 4130 A/C DOM seamless.  That stuff is some stringy gummy stuff to machine.  But it makes some awful good shooting barrels.

Offline Third_Rail

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DOM tubing, 4140?
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2005, 07:12:27 PM »
Luckily I won't really be machining the tube itself, just very small sections!  :grin:

Offline dominick

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DOM tubing, 4140?
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2005, 02:27:27 PM »
If you call Charles Vogelsong (Dillsburg Aeroplane Works), he'll be happy to send you a price sheet and on the price sheet cover is a map of how to get there.