Author Topic: How much bullet penetration do you need for elk/bear ?  (Read 767 times)

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Offline PJ

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How much bullet penetration do you need for elk/bear ?
« on: February 09, 2003, 07:52:53 AM »
I plain on using my '06 encore pistol for elk/bear this year.Would like to know how much bullet penetration is needed.Muzzle velocity will be around 2500fps with a 150gr bullet.I have tested a few bullets on their performance here it is.....

bullet penetration/Weight retained %

150gr NBT......11.6"......82%

150gr Win. fail safe.....18.3".....100%

150gr Barnes X.......10.5".....100%

150gr Hornady SP......11.8"......95%

Offline Robert

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PJ, where ya been?
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2003, 08:21:13 AM »
There are 'two schools' on bullet penetration. I think you will find the forum divided on this point.  Some folks like plenty of expansion, others swear by hardcast bullets that will expand less and exit the animal, one of the therories being 'two wounds' the exit wound being the larger of the two and making a better blood trail, but........Better expansion, will retain all of the force of the bullet in the animal (more knockdown, less tracking).......then there is the 'third' school.  The Barnes 'X' and Black Talon.....The Talon cuts a path instead of smashing a path and closing blood vessels, the Barnes 'X' does a combination of both, even though it mushrooms, it is a more raggy mushroom with sharper edges, and I have heard people say it makes a devistating wound channel...or tunnel.  But then...they are 'touchy' bullets for accuracy.
  Anyway..back to your question...Penetration tests are not going to be the same as on a real animal.  Just hitting a rib can make a big difference as opposed to  hitting between the ribs and lung matter, there wont be much to stop the bullet.  A lot of the bullet tests are based on penetration on Meat, and that isnt what I would be aiming for.
  Myself, I like a good quality soft point, and load it as hot as possible to still be accurate.  I did a lot of research for light loads and bullet performance, and checked out the 'bloodshot theory'. (bullets less than 2500 fps cause  less bloodshot and meat damage)  I have tried a lot of these loads for ballistics and such, but when it came right down to an important hunt, and meat on the table...I have never any of these loads.  I have always used the  most powerful load that I had with me and banked more on accuracy and not hitting any of my good meat(in a perfect world) .... It dosent always work out that way.
....make it count

Offline TopGun

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Elk and Porcupines?
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2003, 02:19:22 PM »
PJ-I too am going to try my '06 this year. I have had mucho success with my 375JDJ and I am hesitating. I was going to consider the 180 Nosler Balistic tip because it is superbley accurate and I origianally felt teh 180 would be heavy enough. I have since changed my mind and I am going with the 165 partition or like construction. I haven't officially chronoed any 165's yet but the loads I've tested were a little faster than your 150's you're working with. Maybe my barrel is a little faster, but I'm not at the published max yet with 748 or 4064? I'll let you know. Hey Porcupine, where in Colorado? I back-pack into the Zirkel Wilderness every October. My BC 315 6x6 came out of there as did my buddies 340 6x7. We have many other various 4x,5x, somethings over teh years. 17 to be exact. I love teh Zirkels. It's just a real pain-in-the-back to get the meat out. It's worth every step!
The first shot is the best shot, it may be your only shot!  Do it with a single-shot.
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Offline PJ

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How much bullet penetration do you need for
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2003, 03:00:03 PM »
What do you guys think of the Win. Fail safe ? it opened up nice and penetrated like no bullet I'v seen.Im not sure tho if it would open up if I miss any bone.

Offline thomas

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what did you use for your media?
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2003, 03:56:49 PM »
and what distance was your test done at? 20 ft. is not a good test as some do.
I would be shooting at 100 yards to more approximate real world hunting conditions.

Might want to line up 5 of them coyotes you hunt  in a row and try it

Tom